At the end of the day it all comes down to the scouting and personnel departments...I have seen championship teams put together this way so I am not going to discount it but you gotta have an elite scouting and personnel department as well as a hell of a developmental coaching staff because you are asking these people to overcome a talent deficit and create a team that is much better than the sum of it's parts from a talent standpoint...We will see how this philosophy pays off for Campbell...He operated this way at Iowa State in the Big 12 but this is Penn State and this is the B1G...My big curiosity is how much NIL money the program has at it's disposal...This is going to be a very interesting season...We are going to find out how well this philosophy works out for them this season...
We all thought the schedule last was was easy and it turned out to be a very competitive schedule. I’ll take good 3* and 4* players all day long if I got a good QB that can make plays when the games are on the line. It’s all about the QB and I guess that’s why MC brought his guy in he knows what’s he’s got.
I sure as heck didn’t think the schedule was easy which was part of why I never bought into the PSU national championship hype.
@psujoe I believe most of us thought it was a long shot to win the NC with DA. The ND game done it for me but I was still hoping. I believe we were getting spoiled watching Grunk play after he got a few snaps under his belt. We’ve had to eat a few shit sandwiches the last few years homer it’s gotta get better 😂
The Mets spend the most money in the league. LOLI am quite aware of what Moneyball means and knew Billy Beane and played against him...I am well aware of sabermetrics and what the ramifications of this is to the game...You see there is one big flaw to this...In my personal opinion stats and tendencies have their place in every sport but in today's baseball the eggheads have taken over...These people are all vying to prove they are the smartest people in the room...A broken clock is right twice a day...Here is the flaw with the current state of analytics in baseball...Nobody has a feel for the game anymore...None of these eggheads ever played...They have no idea what it is to grind through a season...They are clueless as to how a player may feel that day...If a pitcher has his "stuff"...They know the game through a sanitized computer screen spitting out stats...This is why many of the great managers quit or got fired...You are correct that every team has an analytics department...The problem is the analytics department can't predict a player getting hurt, his state of mind on a particular day or how he is feeling as these are human things that a computer has no way of knowing or measuring...I am not saying this doesn't have value but my personal opinion is these organizations put far more importance on this than they should...Give me a great scouting and personnel department...Give me a manager and coaching staff that have a feel for the game and I will take that over these computer eggheads any day of the week...The manager I always admired was Jim Leyland...A recent example of a great manager is Buck Showalter...These guys know the game and have a feel for the game...Showalter was shown the door in Queens because upstairs made him do things that he didn't agree with and as it came to pass the stuff they made Buck do didn't work...We are going to find out how all this works out for Campbell...Let me be clear...I am hoping this all works out...I am rooting for him...But he loses to USC at home in a whiteout, Michigan on the road and Washington on the road the fan base is gonna see a lot of deja vue all over again...Sometimes doing the obvious is the smartest move instead of trying to prove you are the smartest person in the room...The current Mets GM David Stearns is learning this the hard way...
After the last 3 years of the BS we’ve been watching on the field when we had the talent to win the NC we’re all skeptical on anything or anybody. We need to give MC and Rocco a chance to see if they can get it done. The shit we watched the last 3 years is in the past I’m feeling pretty good about the season. Win this year and everything will take care of itself. We got this year to get it done let’s worry about 2027 when it gets here. Looking at it on paper this 2026 team is loaded baby. Watching what we had to watch the last 3 years will make you football stupid and cause you to lose confidence 😂
EXACTLY...They are also the most analytics driven organization in major league baseball...This isn't solely about spending money...This is about how much stock you put in analytics...Rather than make the obvious moves this guy Stearns thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and constantly outsmarts himself...What I find both hilarious and fascinating at the same time is the fact that people think this analytics thing is a modern day creation...I hate to break it to all of you...Back during my days of playing the scouts had what they called a "book" on every player...They knew who couldn't hit a curve, who chased the high cheese, Who had a tendency to pull the ball and of course there are many factors to where a player hits the ball...If you are pitching a guy inside the odds are he is gonna pull the ball as opposed to a guy you are pitching away is gonna be more apt to hit the ball the opposite way...The difference in todays game is these eggheads are telling the baseball people what to do...I believe in stacking yourself with the best scouts, personnel people and player development people...That builds winning teams along with targeting star players...If this analytical stuff worked why does the NFL have such a difficult time identifying who the next great QB's are? Why do they miss more than they hit on these rookie QB's...One final statement...I love Drew Allar...He seems like a good kid who works hard...They can fix all his mechanics and he still won't be a quality NFL QB and that pains me to say...You can fix all of his fundamentals but you can't fix his brain and he just doesn't have the ability to identify coverages and make quick decisions...That is going to be his undoing in the NFL...If he ever figures that out he will be a hall of fame QB but I have never seen someone fix that issue...Either you have it or you don't and he just don't have it...
You first said moneyball was nonsense and would choose money every time. Then said you know what moneyball is and even if it's useful, money still matters more. Now here the Mets spend the most money and it's now about something else.EXACTLY...They are also the most analytics driven organization in major league baseball...This isn't solely about spending money...This is about how much stock you put in analytics...Rather than make the obvious moves this guy Stearns thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and constantly outsmarts himself...What I find both hilarious and fascinating at the same time is the fact that people think this analytics thing is a modern day creation...I hate to break it to all of you...Back during my days of playing the scouts had what they called a "book" on every player...They knew who couldn't hit a curve, who chased the high cheese, Who had a tendency to pull the ball and of course there are many factors to where a player hits the ball...If you are pitching a guy inside the odds are he is gonna pull the ball as opposed to a guy you are pitching away is gonna be more apt to hit the ball the opposite way...The difference in todays game is these eggheads are telling the baseball people what to do...I believe in stacking yourself with the best scouts, personnel people and player development people...That builds winning teams along with targeting star players...If this analytical stuff worked why does the NFL have such a difficult time identifying who the next great QB's are? Why do they miss more than they hit on these rookie QB's...One final statement...I love Drew Allar...He seems like a good kid who works hard...They can fix all his mechanics and he still won't be a quality NFL QB and that pains me to say...You can fix all of his fundamentals but you can't fix his brain and he just doesn't have the ability to identify coverages and make quick decisions...That is going to be his undoing in the NFL...If he ever figures that out he will be a hall of fame QB but I have never seen someone fix that issue...Either you have it or you don't and he just don't have it...
The goalposts seem to keep moving.
Also, the teams with the largest analytics departments in MLB are the Tampa Bay Rays and Los Angeles Dodgers... NOT the Mets. The Dodgers have won the last 2 WS, and are widely considered to have the largest analytics department in ALL sports, not just baseball.
Listen...Moneyball is nonsense...I don't agree with any of it...My question to you is why does it have to be one extreme or the other? I am saying this advanced analytics has a place and in the case of baseball was around long before these eggheads got involved...My point is you need to have some stars on your team to win...In football there are key positions where you spend money...QB, Left Tackle, Pass Rushers and cornerbacks...Talent matters and you need to spend some money to compete...I don't see Penn State getting any of these big time targets and to me it has to be about the money...A lot goes into building a winning team...I am only stating my opinion regarding scouting, personnel departments and player development being the most important...You still have to target stars and spend money to win...That is my point...I am moving no goalposts I am stating what I feel you need to have a consistent winning program...You ain't winning championships spending 20 or 25 million dollars for a team when the rest of your competition is spending 70 million...That is my point...I have no idea what Penn State's NIL budget is...To my eyes they aren't conducting themselves like a big market team...If money dictated championships then the biggest spending team would always win and that isn't the case due to several factors...Injuries, players underperforming from their averages etc...Like I said you need many things to create a winning team and one of those components is being able to spend the money necessary to bring in the top talent...Right now I ain't seeing that with Penn State and it's a concern...take it for what it is worth...
The Mets have the largest analytics department in baseball including bringing the pitching lab over from Milwaukee that Stearns helped create...Tampa Bay has the best scouting, personnel and player development programs in Major League baseball...The Dodgers are a close 2nd...That is why in Tampa's case they can compete with one of the smallest payrolls in baseball and why the Dodgers are dominating the game...
That is why I hold Scouting, Personnel and Player Development in such high regard as in my opinion those are at the core of creating a successful organization...The difference is the Dodgers spend money and Tampa don't and that is the difference between being competitive and winning championships...
It may look like it is all about the QB BUT remind me how many times Collins was sacked in 94. Must have been some offensive line. O-Line seems like a good investment to me. A good one make good QB's great...and probably a multiplier for RB's also.
@underlion Bring to mind something about, "It all starts in the trenches."
Trenches ain’t been the problem we’ve had 2 RB’s that set records at Penn St with TD’s and the all time rushing records.
But they don't, the Dodgers do. An article from a month ago when the Dodgers were playing the Mets stated: "Their (Dodgers) massive analytics and player-performance department identifies areas of improvement and craft well-considered plans.The Mets have the largest analytics department in baseball including bringing the pitching lab over from Milwaukee that Stearns helped create...Tampa Bay has the best scouting, personnel and player development programs in Major League baseball...The Dodgers are a close 2nd...That is why in Tampa's case they can compete with one of the smallest payrolls in baseball and why the Dodgers are dominating the game...
That is why I hold Scouting, Personnel and Player Development in such high regard as in my opinion those are at the core of creating a successful organization...The difference is the Dodgers spend money and Tampa don't and that is the difference between being competitive and winning championships...
The Mets are getting better in all of these areas, but true organizational excellence takes time and consistency. Check back in a couple of years, when David Stearns has had time"
I also checked how many employees are in the departments... the Dodgers have more. The Mets are never mentioned as having the largest analitics department as you claim. Where are you getting this from, or is it "trust me I know"?
So my question remains... The Dodgers have won two WS in a row, and have a massive investment in analytics. They use it extensively. Why would they do that if it was nonsense?
I am going to tell you again...The Dodgers success and Tampa Bays success isn't due to their analytics departments...Tampa has the best scouting, personnel and player development departments in baseball with the Dodgers a close 2nd...Their baseball people are the best in baseball...MOST of major league baseball has large investments in analytics...My personal opinion is that is part of the problem...I am a baseball guy...I have played at the D1 level and professionally...I know and have many friends that were major league baseball players...I was a position player (shortstop) but I will start with the damage this analytics has done to pitching...It all started with a guy who pitched in the Pirates minor league system and became a pitching coach by the name of Rick Peterson...He is the moron responsible for the 100 pitch limitation which for some reason has taken hold and has become the holy grail of how to handle pitchers and as a result I believe this is why you see the arm injuries in baseball today that you didn't see in past era's...Look at the number of complete games in the 60's, 70's and 80's as opposed to when this guys theories started to be put into practice...Today 1 in 3 major league pitchers have had at least 1 Tommy John surgery...The great Atlanta Braves staff of the 90's debunked this stupidity and threw more during their pitching routines than any staff in major league baseball...John Smoltz credits this with keeping him healthy and without arm issues...He has made the argument that pitching more and strengthening you arm through usage limits injury more effectively than taking an easy approach...I agree with his assessment and believe a lot of this stuff is stupidity...I will start with the 100 pitches nonsense...I can also get into bullpen usage and the stupidity there...How pitchers are handled and the usage of pitchers is my biggest gripe with this analytics hocus pocus...As far as position players are concerned stats can be deceiving especially when it comes to matchups...Lets say a guy is facing a pitcher and he is 1 for 6 lifetime against the guy...These eggheads would immediately swap him out for a different hitter as this is a "minus" matchup...HOWEVER the computer only sees 1 for 6...He has no idea what the circumstances were with the at bats...Was the guy in a slump? Was he battling an injury? Was it cold when he faced him? Maybe the guy is hot right now and on a roll...We had analytics back when I was playing...The staff and dugout guys charted everything...EVERY player had what we called a "book" on them...My issue with all of this isn't that Analytics aren't important or have a place in the game...My issue is these guys are making the decisions...The manager and coaches should be making the personnel decisions not some egghead on a computer...I will take a top well seasoned HUMAN scout's opinion over some egghead with a computer...As far as Stearns is concerned I was never a fan of the hire and this is year 3...Each year the results have regressed...My take on him is he is out to prove he is the smartest guy in the room...He knows better than everybody else...Instead of making the obvious move he tries to prove he is smarter than everybody else...I don't think they will ever win with him there...I can tell you with 100% certainty the Dodgers and Tampa ain't winning because of their analytics departments...They are winning because they have the best scouting, personnel and player development staffs in baseball...They have the baseball guys...When Steve Cohen took over the ownership of the Mets...I told some of the inside people there if it was me I would poach every scout I could from Tampa, the Dodgers and Houston along with as many personnel guys and player development guys as I could swing away from them...I know they poached some folks from Houston but if you don't listen to your baseball guys and let these eggheads have the final say you aren't going to have any success...Stearns is an egghead guy and that is why Buck Showalter was shown the door...
TLDR... I am guessing you said that even though both teams use analitics extensively, they win for other reasons.I am going to tell you again...The Dodgers success and Tampa Bays success isn't due to their analytics departments...Tampa has the best scouting, personnel and player development departments in baseball with the Dodgers a close 2nd...Their baseball people are the best in baseball...MOST of major league baseball has large investments in analytics...My personal opinion is that is part of the problem...I am a baseball guy...I have played at the D1 level and professionally...I know and have many friends that were major league baseball players...I was a position player (shortstop) but I will start with the damage this analytics has done to pitching...It all started with a guy who pitched in the Pirates minor league system and became a pitching coach by the name of Rick Peterson...He is the moron responsible for the 100 pitch limitation which for some reason has taken hold and has become the holy grail of how to handle pitchers and as a result I believe this is why you see the arm injuries in baseball today that you didn't see in past era's...Look at the number of complete games in the 60's, 70's and 80's as opposed to when this guys theories started to be put into practice...Today 1 in 3 major league pitchers have had at least 1 Tommy John surgery...The great Atlanta Braves staff of the 90's debunked this stupidity and threw more during their pitching routines than any staff in major league baseball...John Smoltz credits this with keeping him healthy and without arm issues...He has made the argument that pitching more and strengthening you arm through usage limits injury more effectively than taking an easy approach...I agree with his assessment and believe a lot of this stuff is stupidity...I will start with the 100 pitches nonsense...I can also get into bullpen usage and the stupidity there...How pitchers are handled and the usage of pitchers is my biggest gripe with this analytics hocus pocus...As far as position players are concerned stats can be deceiving especially when it comes to matchups...Lets say a guy is facing a pitcher and he is 1 for 6 lifetime against the guy...These eggheads would immediately swap him out for a different hitter as this is a "minus" matchup...HOWEVER the computer only sees 1 for 6...He has no idea what the circumstances were with the at bats...Was the guy in a slump? Was he battling an injury? Was it cold when he faced him? Maybe the guy is hot right now and on a roll...We had analytics back when I was playing...The staff and dugout guys charted everything...EVERY player had what we called a "book" on them...My issue with all of this isn't that Analytics aren't important or have a place in the game...My issue is these guys are making the decisions...The manager and coaches should be making the personnel decisions not some egghead on a computer...I will take a top well seasoned HUMAN scout's opinion over some egghead with a computer...As far as Stearns is concerned I was never a fan of the hire and this is year 3...Each year the results have regressed...My take on him is he is out to prove he is the smartest guy in the room...He knows better than everybody else...Instead of making the obvious move he tries to prove he is smarter than everybody else...I don't think they will ever win with him there...I can tell you with 100% certainty the Dodgers and Tampa ain't winning because of their analytics departments...They are winning because they have the best scouting, personnel and player development staffs in baseball...They have the baseball guys...When Steve Cohen took over the ownership of the Mets...I told some of the inside people there if it was me I would poach every scout I could from Tampa, the Dodgers and Houston along with as many personnel guys and player development guys as I could swing away from them...I know they poached some folks from Houston but if you don't listen to your baseball guys and let these eggheads have the final say you aren't going to have any success...Stearns is an egghead guy and that is why Buck Showalter was shown the door...
I guess the Dodgers and Tampa just like lighting money on fire for no reason. Sure, that makes sense.
What a surprise that the Chief of Baseball Operations of the Dodgers is a big believer in analytics, and he just so happens to be the guy who built the Tampa Bay Franchise up with analytics before heading to LA. All coincidence.
What don't you understand about those 2 teams having the best scouts, personnel and player development departments in baseball and that is why they are winning? You can use analytics as a tool but that ain't why those teams are winning...EVERYBODY that is involved with baseball knows that...You are convinced the eggheads are the reason why those teams are winning...Keep believing that...Anybody that is involved in the game knows why those teams are where they are...I named the 3 departments responsible for their success and why they are held in such regard as baseball organizations...And YES...I am telling you that MOST of the organizations have expansive analytics departments...and YES I am telling you the reason why they are successful is due to their scouting departments, Personnel departments and Player Development departments...I am also telling you that a lot of this analytics stuff is pure nonsense and I laid it out for you...I am just telling ya how it is...And YES I believe Stearns has done a terrible job and he should be fired...These are based on my beliefs based on my knowledge of baseball and the friends and people I know who played, coached and managed...You can agree and if you don't so be it...Ask around to who you feel are knowledgeable baseball people and see what they tell ya...My personal opinion is that baseball decisions should be made by the baseball guys and not the computer eggheads...
What don't you understand about me NEVER SAYING scouting doesn't matter? You're off arguing something I never stated. All I stated is you are completely wrong about analytics being "nonsense". It makes no effing sense to say that, then somehow argue the team that utilizes it the most and is known for it is just throwing money down the tube because you say so. That it's "nonsense". They just burning money because they want to?What don't you understand about those 2 teams having the best scouts, personnel and player development departments in baseball and that is why they are winning? You can use analytics as a tool but that ain't why those teams are winning...EVERYBODY that is involved with baseball knows that...You are convinced the eggheads are the reason why those teams are winning...Keep believing that...Anybody that is involved in the game knows why those teams are where they are...I named the 3 departments responsible for their success and why they are held in such regard as baseball organizations...And YES...I am telling you that MOST of the organizations have expansive analytics departments...and YES I am telling you the reason why they are successful is due to their scouting departments, Personnel departments and Player Development departments...I am also telling you that a lot of this analytics stuff is pure nonsense and I laid it out for you...I am just telling ya how it is...And YES I believe Stearns has done a terrible job and he should be fired...These are based on my beliefs based on my knowledge of baseball and the friends and people I know who played, coached and managed...You can agree and if you don't so be it...Ask around to who you feel are knowledgeable baseball people and see what they tell ya...My personal opinion is that baseball decisions should be made by the baseball guys and not the computer eggheads...
I mean, seriously, did you just spend all this time arguing something I never stated?
No, I don't have to "ask around" for knowledgeable people... I can look at the people running pretty much every damn team in sports and I don't think they are just spending money on something they think is nonsense. FFS what a waste of money. LOL
LOL... The argument here isn't about usefulness... You don't want to ask baseball people because they are going to tell you exactly what I am telling you... Especially the veteran baseball people who have been around the game for 30 plus years...I get it... You think the analytics department is the key to winning... I disagree... I happen to believe that much of it is bullshit...I explained to you that teams were keeping books and charting everything imaginable 40 plus years ago when I was playing...We had advanced scouts and charts and meetings... The difference today is that most of these teams have seeded control of the day to day decision making to the eggheads in the analytics department and I think it is wrong and I am not alone in that opinion... You believe what you want... My strong belief is that the most valuable people and the reason an organization is successful is due to the scouting, personnel and player development departments... I also believe that the baseball people should be making the day to day decisions and some egghead looking at a computer screen... You have your opinion and I have mine... I am pretty good friends with a current major league manager... I can tell you the most frustrating part of his job is bucking heads with the analytics people in the organization... I can also tell you that this organization also has one of the top scouting, personnel and player development departments in major league baseball...The success of that organization isn't a result of its analytics development but a result of their baseball people...Analytics is a useful tool that the baseball guys should have available to make the baseball decisions... Unfortunately somewhere along the line they have become the decision makers relegating the baseball guys to have to take orders from them and it has driven a lot of the best managers and baseball guys out the game...I side with the baseball guys...
LOL "baseball people" as if the GMs and people running the teams aren't "baseball people" talking about how they use analytics every day.LOL... The argument here isn't about usefulness... You don't want to ask baseball people because they are going to tell you exactly what I am telling you... Especially the veteran baseball people who have been around the game for 30 plus years...I get it... You think the analytics department is the key to winning... I disagree... I happen to believe that much of it is bullshit...I explained to you that teams were keeping books and charting everything imaginable 40 plus years ago when I was playing...We had advanced scouts and charts and meetings... The difference today is that most of these teams have seeded control of the day to day decision making to the eggheads in the analytics department and I think it is wrong and I am not alone in that opinion... You believe what you want... My strong belief is that the most valuable people and the reason an organization is successful is due to the scouting, personnel and player development departments... I also believe that the baseball people should be making the day to day decisions and some egghead looking at a computer screen... You have your opinion and I have mine... I am pretty good friends with a current major league manager... I can tell you the most frustrating part of his job is bucking heads with the analytics people in the organization... I can also tell you that this organization also has one of the top scouting, personnel and player development departments in major league baseball...The success of that organization isn't a result of its analytics development but a result of their baseball people...Analytics is a useful tool that the baseball guys should have available to make the baseball decisions... Unfortunately somewhere along the line they have become the decision makers relegating the baseball guys to have to take orders from them and it has driven a lot of the best managers and baseball guys out the game...I side with the baseball guys...
Sure.
And man... for pete's sake will you stop arguing things I didn't say? Like WTF is wrong with you that you keep saying things like "You think analytics are the ket to winning". Eho even said that? At this point what the eff are you even talking about anymore? I never said any of this chit you are arguing about.
My point always has been simply this: You said moneyball was "nonsense". Now you've backtracked and say it's a tool, while also trying to act like I stated it was the most important thing.
Just stop.
You are right...You're knowledge of baseball eclipses even the most ardent experts...As a matter of fact your knowledge of everything is all encompassing...The overwhelming majority of baseball general managers never even played college baseball let alone professional baseball...They are for the most part organizational managers...They aren't baseball people...Obviously Billy Beane played the game and was a good ballplayer and is the exception to the rule...The thought of some egghead sitting behind a computer telling a baseball guy who to play and when to pull a pitcher is pure nonsense...In my opinion moneyball is pure nonsense and myself and plenty of baseball people think the same way...A lot of great managers quit the game as a result of it...
LOL, you just keep on arguing things I never said. FFS man you're hopelessYou are right...You're knowledge of baseball eclipses even the most ardent experts...As a matter of fact your knowledge of everything is all encompassing...The overwhelming majority of baseball general managers never even played college baseball let alone professional baseball...They are for the most part organizational managers...They aren't baseball people...Obviously Billy Beane played the game and was a good ballplayer and is the exception to the rule...The thought of some egghead sitting behind a computer telling a baseball guy who to play and when to pull a pitcher is pure nonsense...In my opinion moneyball is pure nonsense and myself and plenty of baseball people think the same way...A lot of great managers quit the game as a result of it...
LOL, you just keep on arguing things I never said. FFS man you're hopeless.You are right...You're knowledge of baseball eclipses even the most ardent experts...As a matter of fact your knowledge of everything is all encompassing...The overwhelming majority of baseball general managers never even played college baseball let alone professional baseball...They are for the most part organizational managers...They aren't baseball people...Obviously Billy Beane played the game and was a good ballplayer and is the exception to the rule...The thought of some egghead sitting behind a computer telling a baseball guy who to play and when to pull a pitcher is pure nonsense...In my opinion moneyball is pure nonsense and myself and plenty of baseball people think the same way...A lot of great managers quit the game as a result of it...
You say in one post it's a useful tool, and in others you say it's nonsense. Make up your damn mind before arguing about it. Oh yeah, and try sticking to arguing what people said, not what you just want to say.
All I have said the entire damn time was it's not nonsense as you claim. That's it. That's all. Now you're bitching about me knowing everything, that I claimed it's the most important thing ever, that I only want eggsheads running everything, and that I think MC is brilliant and infallable.
Give it a rest
