and when you put as many guys in the NFL as Franklin has in the last couple years, working with scraps and under rated players, it's not even a question. Grant Haley, Amos, Barkley, Cabinda, Gesicki, Godwin, Golden, Hamilton, Mahon, Nassib, Sickels, Apke.....wanna talk about coaching up? Many of these guys came out of nowhere. Mostly three star players and a no star player...
The punt timeout was called at the 1 minute mark if second quarter. Michigan had NO timeouts left, PSU Defense was on the field, 2/3 of the first half, and JF could have punted at 25 seconds. JF has no clue on the sidelines.
Limegrover is in his third year and Rahne had two years to be an understudy under JoeMo. Don’t see the dramatic improvements in either coach so why do you think these two coaches are going to be better coaches. Limegrover came from a losing program, Minnesota. If he was so good, why would Minnesota cut him loose.
So you are giving JF all the credit for turning that list of players into Pros but PSU Ticketholders who pay outrageous ticket costs to be patience with JF.
The PSU Fans never spoke about being “Elite” not even “Great”, but JF did and now he has to deliver. Last week’s outing was pathetic and that performance does not even hit the “Average” Level. JF is selling tickets, high-fiving with the donors, but it is time to produce.
Sorry Bill, but your last post is a bit hard to take. You can't say "most of these guys came out of nowhere" when almost half the guys you listed were 4 star recruits. Come on now.
Barkley, Gesecki, Sickles, Godwin, and Mahon were all 4 stars according to 24/7. Regardless of what recruiting list you go by, they were obviously well regarded when you look at their offers too.
I mean, I get what you are saying but I think you can steer clear of those guys if you want to make a point about "scraps" and "underrated players"
Yep! Let's not give any credit to their position coaches who have moved on to other teams. So, your position is, when the players succeed the credit all goes to Franklin. But when they fail to produce it's all on the players because they were borderline and Franklin had little to work with! Give me a break! LOL
Perception is very influential on what people think and value. Right now the perception is JF is not a coach who can take the program to the next level and to be honest, it is very hard to argue against that with the recent results.
Talking about Limegrover being fired shows a fundamental lack of understanding in what happened there.
1. Limegrover was a Jerry Kill hire, and followed him to 3 different schools.
2. Minnesota was not a losing program under Jerry Kill, in fact their OLine was highly regarded when Kill and Limegrover were there.
3. Jerry Kill had to step down due to huge medical problems, and someone else took over. Limegrover was the Offensive Coordinatior during this transition, something he said at the time wasn't what he liked doing.
4. At the end of the year Limegrover was let go by the new coach, who wanted to go in another direction.
To say or imply his firing had anything to do with his ability as a OL coach is nonsense. Minnesota at the time was considered to have one of the better OL's in the Big Ten.
Anytime there is a “gamble” on special teams is mind-boggling when the PSU Special Teams have been grossly inconsistent all year.
My position is this is a down year, and when you look at the body of work Franklin has put in with the limited amount of time in no way should anyone even be hinting at getting rid of anyone. They wont have much going to the NFL this year because not many will be graduating. McSorely will be their biggest loss and I really don't know that he's NFL material. Someone might take a chance because he's a winner, but the rest of them will be back. The only others that will leave a minor gap are Nick Scott and Thompkins. Wright is replaceable. The position coaches are still working with them, and some are new to those positions.
One can also look to the injury of Mark Allen as affecting this season on offense. He was a different kind of runner who may have done better than Sanders.
Franklins last 2 classes have been top 10. You really need 4 in a row of top 10 talent to be elite or at least close to it. Franklins first couple of classes were on in the 20-25 range l believe and those are the juniors and seniors playing now.Some people don’t understand that it takes a good 5,6,7 years to come totally back after sanctions. I will give Franklin 2 more years before he’s on my hot seat. l totally agree with what Murray said. The only thing that bothers me is lack of development on oline with mostly 4 star players.
Um, much like another quote taken out of context, Franklins was too. "but we’re not an elite football team yet. And as hard as we have worked to go from average to good, from good to great, the work that it’s going to take to get to an elite program is gonna be just as hard as the ground and the distance that we’ve already traveled."
It's rather ironic you demand a great or an elite team, you, a fan, but say the "fans never spoke about being “Elite” not even “Great”".
When sherry Kills was the head coach, he had a record of 31-29 which is a winning record.
After the last regular season game in 2015, a loss to TCU, HC Tracy Claeys fires Limegrover the next day.
And Minnesota Gophers did not have any Offensive Lineman on NFL Rosters in 2018.
Using 247: Haley 3, Amos 3, Barkley 4, Cabinda 3, Gesicki LOW 4, Godwin 4, Golden 3, Hamilton 3, Mahon barely 4, Nassib 0, Sickels low 4, Apke 3....only two, Barkley and Godwin, were mid level 4 star recruits.
actually trick, only one top 5 class, last year 15 in 2017 but thanks for agreeing. As for the Oline...they're all back but Wright. so, young. Menet SO, Bates Jr, Fries SO, McGovern Jr are back with some beef coming up. Miranda, Scruggs, Thorpe has promise, Walker....They don't look TOO bad. Defenses are blitzing all the time again, and this year it's working because the receivers keep dropping balls. We're also seeing something unusual, McSorely used to be very accurate...not so much this year...same coach.
There's no doubt that the OL probably takes the longest to fully develop. This season the OL consists of three JR's and two RS Soph. Expectations for this unit in 2019 when they reach their peak should be high! However, I believe that the OL has the most snap counts of any unit on the team.
I want to see PSU Football get better, make improvements / changes, close the gap to OSU, but as a fan, JF is talking a lot but not seeing words turned into actions.
Franklin said, Stats don’t matter, we are not an elite team but a great team. Michigan and MSU performances were not of a Great Team.
Actually, Moorhead was McSorely's "whisperer" not Rahne.
again...rebuilding year. UM and MSU returned nearly their entire team. UM recruiting classes far and above Franklins. they've had several top 5 classes in last 5 years. THIS is their year.
I can tell you straight out that Rahne is the guy who has and still works with him off the game field. Moorhead and he spoke of play suggestions and such during games. Moorhead had that experience, plus he's six foot 300 so he could see the playing field well from the sideline!
It will be "their year" unless they lose to OSU! Don't imagine that will happen this year all things considered. But can only imagine what would happen if they did!! lol
Okay, so your contention is that "low 4 star recruits" come out of nowhere and is like "working with scraps". Come on Bill, just admit that insinuating that any 4 star player is anything like that is kind of nonsensical.
You posted "Gesicki LOW 4" like the LOW was some sort of indictment that he was an "unknown". He was the #6 TE in the nation and had offers to Wisky, Ohio State, Florida State, etc. Hardly a scrap or unknown.
Same thing for Mahon, you said "barely a 4". He was the #11 OG in the country and had offers from Miami, Wisky, Florida, Michigan, etc.
These players were not scraps and did not com out of nowhere. To say as much is ridiculous. There are plenty of examples to choose from where Franklin did coach up players who fit that description, there's no reason to try and argue that a 4 star player... low, barely, or otherwise, is somehow undervalued or a scrap. Come on now.
Yes. National ranking is based on the talent available that year, both were low 90s on the scale, Mahon was like 90.03 or something like that....like a B-. Point is, they all were developed further and went on to NFL careers. More NOT 4 star than were.
14 of this years 1st round NFL draft were 3 star players, and three more were walkons. Of the entire draft, 107 were 3 stars and 70 were 4 stars. Only 15 in the entire draft were 5 stars.
Again, high 3 star and low 4 star players are not scraps or unknowns. The top 500 players (500 is usually a mid 3 star) make up a majority of the NFL draft.
Joe Paterno was better than everybody!
Exactly Murray that’s what I’ve been saying
