Another website is posting what they perceive as the best NFL player from each Power 5 team. For Penn State, Franco gets the vote for them. Gotta agree, but want to give love to Jack Ham and Mike Munchack. Lenny Moore is also up there.
I believe Jack Ham is #1 then Franco. Tamba was also a beast but man we got to give Derek Wake some love because as a pro he was a complete beast baby?
Franco and Ham propelled the Stillers in post season. Franco had the longevity, so maybe that is the difference. Rosey Grier was a terror for the LA Rams as part of the Fearsome Foursome.
When people ask about the best RB's to ever play in the NFL the names Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, etc. come to people's minds first... Not Franco Harris. He's more well known for the immaculate reception than being the best RB ever.
When people mention the best LB's to ever play the game they say Jack Ham, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, etc. Ham is considered one of the best ever at his position, and was named to the "All-Time" team in 1994 for the NFL's 75th Anniversary.
We're Linebacker U, and the only player on the All-Time team from Penn State is a Linebacker. The best NFL player from Penn State is without question: Jack Ham.
When people ask about the best RB's to ever play in the NFL the names Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, etc. come to people's minds first... Not Franco Harris. He's more well known for the immaculate reception than being the best RB ever.
When people mention the best LB's to ever play the game they say Jack Ham, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, etc. Ham is considered one of the best ever at his position, and was named to the "All-Time" team in 1994 for the NFL's 75th Anniversary.
We're Linebacker U, and the only player on the All-Time team from Penn State is a Linebacker. The best NFL player from Penn State is without question: Jack Ham.
It sounds like a matter of perspective. When they were both in the league, FAR more non-Steeler fans knew who Franco was. He was the guy on pace to break Jim Brown's record. I lived in the Chicago area at the time and NO ONE was talking about Payton breaking Brown's record--everyone thought Franco would be the one to do it. Which, of course, he would have if it hadn't been for his contract holdout. But he remains the Steelers' all-time leading rusher. He has a Super Bowl MVP. I don't think I would call Jack Ham the Steelers' best linebacker ever--top 5 for sure, but not the clear #1.
I'd go with Franco, myself.
When people ask about the best RB's to ever play in the NFL the names Jim Brown, OJ Simpson, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, etc. come to people's minds first... Not Franco Harris. He's more well known for the immaculate reception than being the best RB ever.
When people mention the best LB's to ever play the game they say Jack Ham, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkus, etc. Ham is considered one of the best ever at his position, and was named to the "All-Time" team in 1994 for the NFL's 75th Anniversary.
We're Linebacker U, and the only player on the All-Time team from Penn State is a Linebacker. The best NFL player from Penn State is without question: Jack Ham.
It sounds like a matter of perspective. When they were both in the league, FAR more non-Steeler fans knew who Franco was. He was the guy on pace to break Jim Brown's record. I lived in the Chicago area at the time and NO ONE was talking about Payton breaking Brown's record--everyone thought Franco would be the one to do it. Which, of course, he would have if it hadn't been for his contract holdout. But he remains the Steelers' all-time leading rusher. He has a Super Bowl MVP. I don't think I would call Jack Ham the Steelers' best linebacker ever--top 5 for sure, but not the clear #1.
I'd go with Franco, myself.
"I don't think I would call Jack Ham the Steelers' best linebacker ever--top 5 for sure, but not the clear #1."
Jack Lambert is the other LB from the Steelers on the ALL TIME team, so yeah you could have that argument of who's better. So what, both are considered the best in the NFL too.
Franco Harris is not on the ALL TIME team. He was only All Pro once in his entire career (1977), while Jack Ham was named to the All Pro (1974-1979) team 6 years in a row. These teams represent the best of the best in the NFL, clearly Jack Ham was considered at this level for more than half a decade.
To me it's simple... If I'm to be objective about it, I need to take into account how many other people view these players. And when you step back it's quite clear: Jack Ham was and is considered by most to be among the best LB's ever to play the game. He was considered AND NAMED by most to be the best at his position when he was playing as well. Franco Harris was not... and that's not a knock on Harris, but he quite clearly isn't considered as great at his position as Jack Ham was/is. The accolades and awards show that to be true.
Jack Lambert is the other LB from the Steelers on the ALL TIME team, so yeah you could have that argument of who's better. So what, both are considered the best in the NFL too.
Franco Harris is not on the ALL TIME team. He was only All Pro once in his entire career (1977), while Jack Ham was named to the All Pro (1974-1979) team 6 years in a row. These teams represent the best of the best in the NFL, clearly Jack Ham was considered at this level for more than half a decade.
To me it's simple... If I'm to be objective about it, I need to take into account how many other people view these players. And when you step back it's quite clear: Jack Ham was and is considered by most to be among the best LB's ever to play the game. He was considered AND NAMED by most to be the best at his position when he was playing as well. Franco Harris was not... and that's not a knock on Harris, but he quite clearly isn't considered as great at his position as Jack Ham was/is. The accolades and awards show that to be true.
The problem is, you're not being entirely objective. Your choice of criteria is purely subjective. You want to go with first team all-pro selections, when there are quite a few more opportunities for LBs to make that team than for RBs. The same could be said of the "all-time" team.
Franco made one more Pro Bowl than Ham did. Franco made Super Bowl MVP, Ham never did. Far more (non-Steeler) football fans are aware of Franco's accomplishments than they are of Ham's, so if "I need to take into account how many other people view these players," Franco wins.
NFL.com ranked the best Steelers of all time. Jack Ham is #7. Franco is #2.
I love ‘em both but Jack Ham is part of the steel curtain which is why the Steelers were so dominant and his LR’s play is why it was a steel curtain. Ain’t it great we get to debate these 2 studs on who is the best player? Hope I spelled steel curtain right lol
NFL.com ranked the best Steelers of all time. Jack Ham is #7. Franco is #2.
I take it that was one reporter from NFL.com, not the NFL as a whole. Kinda weird he'd be on their All-Time team but only #7 on Pittsburgh. And lets be honest here... any list that has Ben Roethlisberger ahead of Jack Ham for the greatest Steelers ever is kinda ridiculous.
The NFL did their top 100 back in 2010 and Franco Harris wasn't even on the list. Ham was #60 ( https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-viral-greatest-nfl-players-pg-photogallery.html ). The members of the panel were current and former NFL coaches, players, executives, and members of the media. I think that's a bit more legit.
The NFL did a list of top 5 Steelers and Ham was #4, Franco not on the list.(Just putting this as an example / it's just one guy from the NFL network):
Sporting News had a list not too long ago that named the top 100 players all time... Jack Ham was top 50, Franco Harris was in the 80-90s. That's usually what I see when lists rank them when it's a group of people and not just one guy.
Look, I'm not saying Franco Harris isn't good. I'm sure some people out there think more of him than others... but when you get a group of people together (not just one reporter) from the football world (players, coaches, journalists) the consensus usually is Jack Ham is one of the best LBs ever, and Franco was a great RB but not in that top echelon of running backs that Ham is considered for LBs.
Franco is in the top 15 best NFL RB’s IMO the great Jack Ham is top 5 NFL best LB’r having him at 50 and 60th is a complete joke I don’t care who’s doing the voting. You’re right Roam when you sit around and talk to people about the greatest NFL players Jack Hams name always comes up especially when your talking LB’r. IMO the top 10 NFL LB’s can be ranked in any order and none would be wrong and baby Jack Ham is in that top 10 and it ain’t even debatable.
Listen, there really is no objective way to settle this, everyone here has their minds made up, so we're all wasting our breath (or our fingertips, or whatever) trying to change anyone else's.
There is a solid case to be made for Jack Ham as Penn State's greatest NFL player. I won't argue with that at all. There is also a good argument to be made for Franco Harris. But you can't compare stats, and defensive stats were pretty much non-existent in Jack Ham's day. And I think you'd have a hard time proving that there is really any true "consensus"--there is clearly not unanimity. I personally lean toward Franco, and I'm definitely not alone.
As a lifelong Penn State and Steelers fan, I'm very proud of both of them.
Listen, there really is no objective way to settle this, everyone here has their minds made up, so we're all wasting our breath (or our fingertips, or whatever) trying to change anyone else's.
There is a solid case to be made for Jack Ham as Penn State's greatest NFL player. I won't argue with that at all. There is also a good argument to be made for Franco Harris. But you can't compare stats, and defensive stats were pretty much non-existent in Jack Ham's day. And I think you'd have a hard time proving that there is really any true "consensus"--there is clearly not unanimity. I personally lean toward Franco, and I'm definitely not alone.
As a lifelong Penn State and Steelers fan, I'm very proud of both of them.
I'm proud of both of them too, and I never brought up stats. I brought up the fact that Ham was named to 6 consecutive 1st ALL PRO teams and was named to the NFL's ALL TIME Team. Franco Harris wasn't.
In my mind, that's a pretty clear cut case. One player was named many times as the best player at his position for over half a decade, and was named to the best ever team... And one wasn't.
Those are facts, as I said I'm trying to be objective and not subjectively choose one. I bring up the ALL PRO and ALL TIME teams because those are huge lists voted on by peers and experts of football. They obviously feel Ham belonged on those lists while Franco did not. Just the way I see it, those are as close to an expert consensus as you can get.
All I'm really saying is I didn't say Ham because he's "my" choice... I just think it's pretty clear when you have 6 All Pro selections and you are put on the All Time NFL team, your peers, the coaches, and experts kinda feel you are the best in the business of football. If one guy has those accolades and the other does not, I think it's pretty clear who was considered better by those who voted on such things.
That's pretty much how I'm forming my opinion... During his time playing, and after he had retired, Ham was consistently named to the best ever teams by peers. Harris was not.
Franco and the great Jack Ham is just 2 more big time studs that’s was recruited by greatest of all time Joe “Mr. 409” Paterno baby. My goodness 51 years later we still having guys getting NFL franchise contracts and still making noise at the NFL level. Unbelievable..... Just deal with it Snake!!! Lol
I want to give Lenny Moore some love. Look at his receiving stats compared to Franco. (Moore: 6039 yds 48 TD. Harris: 2287 yds 9 TD) Also the Colts were not as dominating as the Steelers during the relevant time periods. Lenny's career was shorter than Franco's.
Joepa recruited and developed a lot of great ones who went on to success in the NFL. Not only were they good ball players, but by and large quality people. Here's one example of the caliber of men Joepa fostered at PSU:
Three-time Pro Bowl offensive guard Marco Rivera was released after two seasons and two back operations while with the Dallas Cowboys. Rivera initially injured his back while running on a treadmill in March 2005, only a week after signing his $20 million, five-year free agent deal. He had surgery to repair a bulging disc in his lower back, but still started the first 14 games in 2005 before being sidelined by a strained neck.
In 2006, Rivera started all 16 regular season games before hurting his back again in the wildcard playoff loss at Seattle and had surgery to repair a herniated disc.
When Rivera signed with the Cowboys, he was coming off his third consecutive Pro Bowl season while blocking for Brett Favre in Green Bay. Rivera played in 106 consecutive games for the Packers, including seven playoff games, from 1998-2004.
Rivera was a sixth-round draft pick out of Penn State in 1996 but was inactive for every game that season when Green Bay won the Super Bowl. He spent the next season primarily on special teams before becoming a starter late in the 1998 season.
After getting hurt in 2005, Rivera offered to tear up his Cowboys contract and return his $9 million signing bonus.
Lots of great players... Just imagine how good you have to be to have even an argument of being the best Steeler ever! My lord, you have to have serious skills.
I got my PhD from the University of North Texas so here's a bit of a shout out to Mean Joe Greene!!
I got my PhD from the University of North Texas so here's a bit of a shout out to Mean Joe Greene!!
Well, what do you know . . . it ought to be obvious, but that's my alma mater as well (bachelor's).
And here's Joe at his statue dedication at Apogee Stadium last fall.
Notice which of those legendary HOFers is on the left? 😉
Roam, you pull for penn st, Alabama and N Texas lol
I had two friends who are now both deceased. We were up at Beaver Stadium for the Notre Dame game in 1991 (PSU won 35-13). My one buddy was talking about what a die hard Lion fan he was. My other friend said he was a Lion fan too, but when they weren't playing each other, he rooted for Notre Dame also. The die hard fan got pretty hot and screamed at the guy "That's bull s__! You can't be a Democrat and a Republican!! Hope Roam keeps that in mind when the Lions eventually meet Bama for the NC, LOL.
Southern, I know your priorities from your previous posts and I feel the same way. I hope you and Roam didn't take offense at my post about being both a D & R. I just thought I would share that funny story about my two old friends. Believe me, if I wanted to take shots at anyone, it certainly wouldn't be you or Roam. I respect you guys too much!
