I hate it but we need another coach and James Franklin needs another start for another team. Just ain’t gettin it done. The guys played hard they come ready to play just wasn’t good enough. 9-8 the last 17 games just ain’t good enough.

@southern-psu-fan I'm hearing JF wants 1.75 million per assistant because of the cost of living in SoCal and negotiations have hit an impasse.

Prog

@psujoe   I haven’t heard anything but I do believe something is going down. If James Franklin does leave it will be exciting to see who Penn State gets. I’m kind of feeling Joe Moorhead which is good with me but I’ll be just as happy for Yurcich this dude is young and will be very hungry to win. Either one of these guys will keep the recruiting class together and will recruit good. I’ll wish James Franklin nothing but the best and I’ll be pulling for him as long as he’s not playing Penn State or GT 😂 

Maybe he'll take "Handsy Bobblehead" and a few other players with him ........

@southern-psu-fan I read a thread about the coaching search from a USC fan website the other day and they were talking about how much they want Matt Rhule and don't want Franklin. They'd be mad if they ended up taking JF off our hands and we end up with Rhule.

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It was a good game.  OSU has improved on offense.  Stroud made every throw I remember except the one he choked on at the goal line.  He was rarely pressured.  Why? Protection, getting the ball out quick, escapability, and our poor pass rush.  Contrast it to Clifford pressures and extending plays.

The run game and the offensive line can't make Clifford above average.  We can't Morefield RPO with Clifford so they have adjusted to his strengths but our offensive line is truely Offensive.  I can't even see that the line needs to do RPO blocking.  It makes it look like we have missed on tailback recruiting and that is hard to believe.  But the Lawnboyz are Turfboyz.

OSU still out recruits us, in general at every position but it is most glaring at QB.

I still believe we are the second best team in the B10 but we have to prove it on the field.  Sadly, at the end of the regular season we will be the best __ loss team.

I fear that losing a HC is a step back for most programs.  You lose recruits and start with a whole new staff and playbook.  Wish OSU had more than a slight burp when Oscar Meyer left.  Most teams do.  And I still say that Saint Nick never got over the hump at MSU and maybe never would have...or maybe he just needed time at MSU and he would have made them the big dog in the B10.

USC?  Good luck, great place to live if it weren't for 2x as many people as there should be and 2x the cost of living.  What do you think a million dollars buys for a house within 30 minutes of the practice facility?

JF leaves, I'd interview Yurcich, and 3 others,  but not based on his 1 year PSU resume.  Big transition from coach to OC to HC.  Crapshoot it is.  Still I'd say PSU is a top 10 program, you just have to compete in the B10E.

If he stays he might want to look at Offensive line issues and going for it on 4th down from his side.  I'll remind people that if the statistics say it is the right thing to do they need to remember the statistics are an average team against an average team.  NOT the PSU no run offense against OSU.  That sample size is too small to be meaningful James....you are 0 for 1 against OSU and seems like  0 for 7 over 2 years!  Short memory James, you were 1 for 7 on two point conversions against the Cleveland Indians last week.

@psujoe   I believe James Franklin would be a great get for USC I honestly believe not beating Ohio St in 2017 and 2018 cost him and Penn St from taking off. Just didn’t take advantage of a few situations that could’ve possibly brought in better recruits. 1-7 ain’t goi g to cut it vs Ohio St. The dude can coach and he can win a NC at USC because he will get the cream of the crop in the PAC. Change is good sometimes. He did get us back beating Michigan so he did have some great success at Penn St he was the right man for the job at the time.

Who is Handsy bobblehead?

Yeah I think its time for a coaching change as well. JF is not going to have any different success where ever he goes, the pattern clearly evolved over the past 6 years or so. Great recruiter to a degree but can't get the other pieces to line up; and after all, he is the common denominator during the changing of other positional coaches. Additionally some of his game management skill is very lacking. At USC, I see a play out like Kelly has been at ND; excellent recruiting, wins, but overall, over rated and no NC. 

Next HC, who knows but damint at least get somebody who has a proven track record with developing O'lineman; I go back and say, look at the Army, Navy and Airforce academies for some consultation and hires at that coaching position.  

@southern-psu-fan I won't miss him at all if he leaves and am hoping USC still wants him. We had great recruiting classes in 18 and 19 and he's done nothing with them.

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@navylion  brother, underlion and tae get over my head sometimes. I’m sure y’all get it, but it has to be guttered down for me 😂 

I have a second tier position coach lives beside me.  Man it looks to be a tough job...especially if you just like football but not kids.  If not doing 10 plus hour days 'coaching' whatever that entails he is recruiting.  I suppose there are administrator type coaches that distance themselves from kids.  I suppose some top coaches get away with 'don't you know who I am?  This is how it is, if you don't like it go somewhere else'.  

My perception, right or wrong, is that Paterno like kids and he liked rounding them into men not just football players.  Most coaches can talk the talk but if you don't like kids then kissing up to 4 and 5 star primadonas is tough.  Dealing with the media and fanbase?  Having time with your own kids and raising them.  More than photo ops at the stadium.  Tough life and there are thousands of dreamers that want your job.  BOB didn't want to coach college and I'd be suspicious that he didn't like recruiting and developing young men.  He also looks to be another guy that leveraged the Belaceck mystique but didn't convert.  Few perform long term and all top 20 fan bases demand to be in the playoffs once every 4 years or time to consider a new coach. 

Problem I have with JF is that I can't  feel I understand what is real and what is salesman.  And if I feel it I'm suspect the team does to.  His 'leadership council' comments may exist because he recognizes the disconnect between the public persona and the team/family persona.  You can only fake commited...family...program so long and IF you are faking it eventually they figure it out.  Faking an O is fine if the other person is getting what they want...but doesn't work long term ladies 😀 

Can he hire the right line coach?  Sure.  Can he recruit?  No doubt.  But the big step is getting a team to perform above their level.  That is yet to be seen and we have to ask why.  Going for it on 4th down may be an example of a relationship problem as was playing a hurt Clifford and not playing former backups in any meaningful role.  I suspect the problem may be a relationship problem.  A 'show' verses reality problem.  JF can come off as not real, to much salesman?

Lets face it, we tolerated a lot from Paterno, he didn't  recruit well and he wasn't progressive.  He didn't replace coaches and then we have the nepotism issue.  Is Fitzgerald the closest coach we have to Paterno now adays?

Maybe JoePa didn't get a lot of the splashy, 5* recruits, but he recruited players that were solid and fit his "system".  More importantly, he developed the kids he brought in and got the most out of their potential.  That's something I don't believe Franklin has done.

Posted by: @southern-psu-fan

@navylion  brother, underlion and tae get over my head sometimes. I’m sure y’all get it, but it has to be guttered down for me 😂 

Oh, I don't understand what makes teams go but I have worked for people that somehow get it and then I've worked for some real losers.  The leaders that get it and get performance seem to love the job, love the people and empower the people and the people respond and the team wins.  The bad leaders are fake, bullies and the team just keeps their head down, tries to stay out of trouble and outlast the leader.

I do not come off as a people person but I think that is style.  I think like an engineer but I recognize people performance is much much different than machines and not easily measured.  People are not machines, they are horribly complicated.  I think you can be very successful with 5 star recruits but the best leaders get 3* employees to perform like a 5* team.  We thought JF did that at Vandy...now we doubt. I suspect working with 3* kids is tough enough...5* kids?  JF is one QB hit and one scoop and score away from undefeated in the B10 East and being ranked #2.  Can I get away with saying that?  Objective enough?  2 plays and we would be on a JF hugfest?

I do find the performance pychology interesting.   I find the ebs and flows of fickle fandom interesting.

Lets interview the NE head coach....he might be good, what a crap shoot for NE.  Not that I feel for them after 94!

@rip  Mr 409’s track record speaks for itself on the field and sending guys on to the NFL.

Posted by: @rip

Maybe JoePa didn't get a lot of the splashy, 5* recruits, but he recruited players that were solid and fit his "system".  More importantly, he developed the kids he brought in and got the most out of their potential.  That's something I don't believe Franklin has done.

And the rats threw him under the bus.  But a lot of players stood up for him even though it was very unpopular to do so.  See, I believe the people close to him knew he was real and what he stood for.  You might call them character references.  Thinking out loud here....what do we have for character references for JF from ex players with no conflicts of interest?

My perceived reality 😆 

I've read the Byzantium book by Joe's brother.  My take away is that Joe was bull headed but he also wanted to win very badly.  His brother seems to talk about Joe 'remaking' himself 4 or 5 times in his career.  George is hard on Joe at times in the book.

JF is to some degree the antithesis of JP but he can remake himself IF desired.

The book is an OK read for an old PSU fan.

JoePa was really good at developing players, but as times changed even he needed to bring in talent to compete. 2005 could never happen without big time freshman recruits coming in and revitalizing the offense. That wasn't development, it was recruiting talent. The next year he had a top 5 recruiting class too.

The thing about Franklin is the depth doesn't seem "ready", what I mean is there seems to be an all or nothing thing going on. I look at the depth chart, and it's like there are starters and 3rd string... but no solid 2nd string. The drop off between the starters and backups is staggering, and I really can't understand it.

With JoePa, you had a lot more even rosters. Sure, maybe not as much talent at the top... but over the course of a season the roster could sustain the inevitable injuries because the 2nd string was prepared. Not NFL guys, but capable of playing assignment football and producing. With Franklin, it seems like the talent shines but there aren't many tough, know your role, and "football iq" guys. Those guys that can fill in admirably in a spot, but not a year... if you know what I mean?

The depth, or lack of it, has bitten us more times than I can count.

Excellent analysis, Roam.  That explains why we are hurting when we need to call on a backup.

And you are now Sandy Barbour (or the President of PSU) with a great high paying job.  You like your job.  The stands are full?  Revenue is good.  James may be leveraging for more $ for coaches, facilities improvements?  Are the 'Boosters', I mean the real money guys, willing to step up?  Am I willing to roll the dice yet on a new coach?  What is the ROI for PSU Sports Inc?  How much is the best offensive line coach worth to you?  You pay him what he is worth and you have to pay the offensive and defensive coordinator more.

Basic fans don't matter much as long as The Beav is full.  PSU fans are dedicated and we make new ones every day.

You ready to take the professional risk yet?  Remember, 2 plays from ranked #2 and undefeated.  Or do you ask him what he needs to get over the hump?

Your job is on the line.  Football supports all of PSU Sports and makes PSU a top University.  As the NCAA President noted, what is good for LSU football is good for LSU.  Just business.

I know what your thinking, did I take 5 or 6 shots.

The President of PSU doesn't give 2 sheets.  He's leaving at the end of this year, lol!

Posted by: @underlion

And you are now Sandy Barbour (or the President of PSU) with a great high paying job.  You like your job.  The stands are full?  Revenue is good.  James may be leveraging for more $ for coaches, facilities improvements?  Are the 'Boosters', I mean the real money guys, willing to step up?  Am I willing to roll the dice yet on a new coach?  What is the ROI for PSU Sports Inc?  How much is the best offensive line coach worth to you?  You pay him what he is worth and you have to pay the offensive and defensive coordinator more.

Basic fans don't matter much as long as The Beav is full.  PSU fans are dedicated and we make new ones every day.

You ready to take the professional risk yet?  Remember, 2 plays from ranked #2 and undefeated.  Or do you ask him what he needs to get over the hump?

Your job is on the line.  Football supports all of PSU Sports and makes PSU a top University.  As the NCAA President noted, what is good for LSU football is good for LSU.  Just business.

I know what your thinking, did I take 5 or 6 shots.

You don't get paid to make easy decisions, you get paid to make tough ones.

@roaminglion oh anyone can make tough decisions...we all make them.  The key is getting them right and usually when you make a decision you don't know if it was right because you don't get to experience the result of the other possibilities. 

But the grass is always greener.  But the devil you know....

Nebraska fired a coach that was over 500 and was going to bowl games and now they have 'their boy' who for some reason can't win a close game...in this situation they knew what they had and now they know what they traded for.  Maybe the game has passed them by, but they still wish for the early 90's and a weak conference.

@roaminglion Dam right and well said.