According to NFL team rosters/depth charts
Steven Gonzales isn't even in the NFL any longer, there is only 1 gonzalez on the player list and it is Zane not Steven Gonzalez
McGovern is a 3rd string bench warmer
Bates is a 2nd string backup.
You said, " I looked on rivals and from 2017-2019 we have seven 4* and four 3* recruits that was recruited by Limegrover and gattis."
So if Limegrover was so terrific, and he was coaching PSU O line 2017, 2018 and 2019, then why aren't they all studs in 2020 and 2021?
Regardless if the "New guy" was good or not, they were coached by Limegrover for 3 years. Did they all forget everything he taught them?
If Limegrover was as good as you say, surely those guys after 3 years under limegrover should be very good RIGHT????
You say Limegrover recruited them 2017-2019, he coached all of them 2017-2019, left at the END of the 2019 season, and most if not all are still playing at PSU. Things line up pretty good in my eyes. Not sure what lens you are looking through Brother!
Maybe the new guy told them to forget about the way Limegrover wanted it done. You know, there's a new sheriff in town and this is how we're gonna do it. As good soldiers always do, you march to the beat of the current drummer, lol.
@navylion https://nittanylionswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/12/former-penn-state-offensive-lineman-steven-gonzalez-has-signed-with-an-nfl-team/
I was just going on this maybe he ended up not signing I’m not big keep up with all NFL teams just the Falcons for me. But even if he got looked at from an NFL team is something special because the NFL is the king and you have to be a bad ass just to get a look.
@southern-psu-fan He didn't get picked in the draft and was sign as a free agent by the Cardinals, released, picked up by the Bills and released a couple of months later. Not really what I would call a successful career.
| August 14, 2021 | Activated LB Marquel Lee from the reserve/COVID-19 list. Released OL Steven Gonzalez. |
Hey SPF, Look what I found from 2019 when Limegrover was still here. A post of you talking about the O line needing to get better!!!
The OL does need to get better and we need to get better on discipline because we had over a 100 yards in penalties. I might be wrong but I just don’t see how you Can constantly run the ball playing 4 RB’s? 8-0 baby I’ll take it
I'm not saying you can but if you are looking to keep a defense honest you probably can.
The consistency issues stem from inconsistency at the LOS and the RB lined up does not matter. PSUs OL could not keep the DL from penetrating our backfield.
I disagree about the running backs, specifically one running back: Ricky Slade.
The protection is piss-poor when he is in the game, and I've watched the games over again and every single time he's in he misses a block on pass protection. That kills drives, and when he's in the game our drives always stall.
I I'm kind of off the running back rotation thing now, and focusing specifically on Slade. It also looks like the defenses cheat a bit when he's in the game, almost like they're not really very scared of him running between the tackles.
We’re in the 11 game of the year, this dude has had plenty of time to make ‘em better and they’ve got worse. It’s just what I see hopefully James Franklin gets out of here and we’ll get a new coaching staff.
Yeah, too bad Limegrover couldn't teach any of em how to block in the 2+ years he worked with them. But at least he got guys he didnt recruit to the NFL. Got so bad we needed to get a transfer from Harvard just not to stink even worse.
I’ve always said the OL needs to get better and it was getting better every year under Limegrover. When Limegrover took over we had DT’s playing center and he still made it work and after a couple of years we had a center going onto the NFL. Brother, you know how tough the NFL is and even if you get a sniff to play in the NFL you got to be one bad ass the NFL is king of all sports imo where only 1% make it and in 4 years we had 4 or 5 guys get a chance to play at the next level. The OL today looks like the sanctions years maybe worse. It’s just what I see everybody sees different things I guess, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one buddy. We’ve got 19 OL and it looks like none of ‘em can run block. Hopefully we’ll get something going and win these next 3 game and try and get 9 wins I know we can all agree on that lol
@southern-psu-fan not to get in the middle of this but 1 point I must make is Penn State during and after the Illinois game is a different team, there is no life, spirit or excitement in this team anymore. Even the stadium is getting the same way, I have never been to a Michigan game that the stands were so quiet. I have been going to games for over 20 years and have never heard a crowd so quit. I put my 2 cents in to say maybe the O-line is playing worse is because the whole team is playing unenthused, not because of the position coach.
I’ve always said the OL needs to get better and it was getting better every year under Limegrover. When Limegrover took over we had DT’s playing center and he still made it work and after a couple of years we had a center going onto the NFL. Brother, you know how tough the NFL is and even if you get a sniff to play in the NFL you got to be one bad ass the NFL is king of all sports imo where only 1% make it and in 4 years we had 4 or 5 guys get a chance to play at the next level. The OL today looks like the sanctions years maybe worse. It’s just what I see everybody sees different things I guess, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one buddy. We’ve got 19 OL and it looks like none of ‘em can run block. Hopefully we’ll get something going and win these next 3 game and try and get 9 wins I know we can all agree on that lol
What are earth are you talking about? It got better every year???? No, it absolutely DID NOT get better every year. It, in fact, GOT WORSE!
Sacks per game:
2016: 1.7 sacks per game
2017: 2.2 sacks per game
2018: 2.4 sacks per game
2019: 2.8 sacks per game
Total yards:
2016: 430
2017: 460
2018: 420
2019: 405
Rushing yards:
Trace McSorley went from a passer to a runner because of protection issues and more reliance on RPO QB runs due to poor line play. In 2016 he had 300 yards rushing, then 400 in 2017, and then 800 in 2018. Then Clifford had 450 in 2019. All while the production from RBs went down.
So tell me... total yardage going down, sacks per game going up, running back yardage going down, while QB's running more... How on earth do you get "the offensive line got better every year"??????
@roaminglion you’re nit picking we did get better from 2016 to 2017 because Barkley and McSorley were a year older so it should get better and we lost a few players including Barkley so the offense took a step back in 2018 not necessary the OL and we took a bigger step back when boobie and Trace graduated and we still won 11 games in 2019 so that’s a lot of improvement. In 2019 some of the sacks were on a young QB Clifford but the OL was better. If you like the last 2 years have at it I believe 2016-2019 was better but you just remember one thing, ole southern told you this might happen when he fired Limegrover. I don’t about stats as much as you because stats can be deceiving but 11 win seasons ain’t deceiving at all. 405 yard or 420 yards who cares about 20 yards we were winning 11 games and the cotton bowl and fiesta bowl but we did lose the Rose Bowl but we scored 50 points so I’d blame that Rose Bowl loss on the defense not the offense. I care about wins and losses baby, if you want to nit pick about a few yards have at it.
So more sacks every year is nitpicking now? Less rushing yards from running backs is nitpicking? Less points per game is nitpicking? WTF?
How on earth are you evaluating the line, based on what? The team's record?
"In 2019 some of the sacks were on a young QB Clifford but the OL was better" - So why more sacks in 2017? Why more sacks in 2018? You know, WHEN WE HAD MCSORLEY? But yeah, all those years it must be because Barkley left?
I mean... dude, how much are you gonna try and spin this? So after a full on trend of more sacks every single year, 2019 was just a young QB. Even though the sacks had gotten worse EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
More sacks? The line is playing better!
Less yardage from RBs? The line is playing better!
Less yards per game? The line is playing better!
More tackles in the backfield every year? The line is playing better!
What???
what?
2016 11-3 Limegrover
2017 11-2 Limegrover
2018 9-4 Limegrover
2019 11-2. Limegrover
2020 4-5 Phil trauatwien
2021 6-4 Phil Trautwien
it ain’t a coincidence Roam it’s right in front of your eyes right here. I’ve said many times winning solves 99.9999% of your problems and it does but when you start losing that’s when you look at the stats. What’s the stats last year? What’s the stats in sacks this year? 10-9 since Limegrover was let go that’s the stats that matter. 42-11 while Limegrover was here, it ain’t a coincidence. When you fire one of the most important positions coach when you’re winning 11 games a year odds are it ain’t going to end good and that’s what happened. Also, 4 of them 11 losses while Limegrover was here was due to the defense not catching the dam ball on an INT that would’ve ended the game with a win.
what?
2016 11-3 Limegrover
2017 11-2 Limegrover
2018 9-4 Limegrover
2019 11-2. Limegrover
2020 4-5 Phil trauatwien
2021 6-4 Phil Trautwien
it ain’t a coincidence Roam it’s right in front of your eyes right here. I’ve said many times winning solves 99.9999% of your problems and it does but when you start losing that’s when you look at the stats. What’s the stats last year? What’s the stats in sacks this year? 10-9 since Limegrover was let go that’s the stats that matter. 42-11 while Limegrover was here, it ain’t a coincidence. When you fire one of the most important positions coach when you’re winning 11 games a year odds are it ain’t going to end good and that’s what happened. Also, 4 of them 11 losses while Limegrover was here was due to the defense not catching the dam ball on an INT that would’ve ended the game with a win.
I'm done arguing with you, using overall record is beyond ridiculous. As pointed out, using that logic anyone could say Tom Bradley did a horrible job because Penn State was 3-8 and 4-7 when he was DC. It's just plain stupid.
Offensive line is one part of a team, just because the team is doing well doesn't mean every single part of the team is.
"when you start losing that’s when you look at the stats" - I can't even begin to talk about this statement. No, you always look at stats, not just when you are trying to find someone to blame.
Plain and simple, the offensive line has sucked for years. It got worse with Limegrover, yet you want to deny facts and just say "we won 11 games" like that explains away diminishing protection, diminishing rushing stats, more tackles in the backfield, etc. etc. etc.
So... did Franklin forget how to coach? How could it be that he won 11 and now is 4-5, and 6-4? You really saying it's 1 OL coach? The OC? Anybody on the team? The defense? etc.? No, it's all the OL coach.
You also kept trying to tell us for years that Donovan was a good OC because Vandy won 9 games with him. No, he's not. He sucked then and it's been proven he sucks now.
@roaminglion I don’t understand you bringing up Tom Bradly roam, nobody ever complained about the defense back then it was Dick Anderson and Jay Paterno people was complaining about. It was the offense struggling back then not the defense, it was the offense beating us back then just like it is now but imo it’s both offensive and defense beating us because we can’t hold a lead in the 4th.If people back then was complaining about the defense you might have a point. Tom Bradly has nothing to do with it. If you want to compare dick Anderson that’s fine and trust me people wanted dick Andersons head back then if you read anything on pennlive from 2002-2011.
@roaminglion I don’t understand you bringing up Tom Bradly roam, nobody ever complained about the defense back then it was Dick Anderson and Jay Paterno people was complaining about. It was the offense struggling back then not the defense, it was the offense beating us back then just like it is now but imo it’s both offensive and defense beating us because we can’t hold a lead in the 4th.If people back then was complaining about the defense you might have a point. Tom Bradly has nothing to do with it. If you want to compare dick Anderson that’s fine and trust me people wanted dick Andersons head back then if you read anything on pennlive from 2002-2011.
Because it demonstrates you logic is flawed. It makes zero sense to talk about overall record when reviewing a coordinator, or position coaches success. Their unit could be doing poorly on a good team, or their unti could be doing very well on a bad team.
It makes absolutely no sense.
Just like you would not say Tom Bradley sucked because the overall record was 3-8, you shouldn't say Limegrover's unit was great because our overall record was 11-2. It's just plain wrong and ignores like... every statistic about the OL's performance over a 4 year period. They weren't good, and it's been written about for years, just accept it.
Players, coaches, and units can still bad even if the team wins. Oklahoma won for years in spite of their poor defense. Georiga's offense this year isn't all that great, but they are 10-0 because of their defense... not because their QB is some world beater.
@roaminglion Georgia QB will be first or second team all SEC. Georgia has a dang good offense from what I’ve seen. Regardless, I never said it was a great OL I said it got better every year and I still believe it did and I remember you saying the same thing a few years ago. It was an average OL but coming out of death penalty sanctions nobody else could’ve done better heck Alabama has the best players in the country and their QB is gettin killed on a lot of plays. These offenses are not OL friendly and the QB are going to take a beating regardless of what team it is running the RPO. I’m hoping one of Georgia’s QB’s transfers to Penn State both of them can play. You’re a hard dude to please roam lol
@roaminglion Georgia QB will be first or second team all SEC. Georgia has a dang good offense from what I’ve seen. Regardless, I never said it was a great OL I said it got better every year and I still believe it did and I remember you saying the same thing a few years ago. It was an average OL but coming out of death penalty sanctions nobody else could’ve done better heck Alabama has the best players in the country and their QB is gettin killed on a lot of plays. These offenses are not OL friendly and the QB are going to take a beating regardless of what team it is running the RPO. I’m hoping one of Georgia’s QB’s transfers to Penn State both of them can play. You’re a hard dude to please roam lol
I just dont know what you are looking at to say it got better every year. Based on nothing other than your gut?
Every single OL stat got worse, not better. In what world does more sacks, less RB yardage, more tackles in the backfield, and less total yards equate to better line play?
That is what I am saying. I am not saying they were god awful, but to say they got better? Their stats got worse every year?
@roaminglion I honestly don’t care what the stats say unless you are losing that’s when negative stats matter when you are winning they don’t matter because as long as you are winning there might be a good reason stats might not look good like having a QB that likes to run which McSorley and Clifford do and running QB’s sometimes makes the stats worse than what it really is. I don’t care how anybody paints the picture, when you’re winning 11 games they ain’t a whole lot wrong regardless of what the stats say. Just winning wasn’t enough I guess and it’s effed the last 2 years up. Just win baby is all that matters. I’d rather look bad have bad stats and win than have great stats and look good and lose…just win. And on the Georgia QB I was talking about the freshman they have trying to be sarcastic thinking he might transfer to Penn State lol
@roaminglion I honestly don’t care what the stats say unless you are losing that’s when negative stats matter when you are winning they don’t matter because as long as you are winning there might be a good reason stats might not look good like having a QB that likes to run which McSorley and Clifford do and running QB’s sometimes makes the stats worse than what it really is. I don’t care how anybody paints the picture, when you’re winning 11 games they ain’t a whole lot wrong regardless of what the stats say. Just winning wasn’t enough I guess and it’s effed the last 2 years up. Just win baby is all that matters. I’d rather look bad have bad stats and win than have great stats and look good and lose…just win. And on the Georgia QB I was talking about the freshman they have trying to be sarcastic thinking he might transfer to Penn State lol
Stats matter all the time, saying stats only matter when you are losing would make any winning coach cringe. You constantly look for ways to make your team better, not just say "we are winning so who cares". Every successful coach will tell you stats matter all the time, you should evaluate all coaches accordingly, and just because your team is good doesn't mean you can't hold people accountable for underperforming.
Nick Saban didn't say "well good enough" when he was winning games but not championships. He constantly looks at his team and evaluates accordingly. I can't even imagine him thinking everything is fine because he's 11-2. Nope, if a unit is underperforming he goes and fixes it, he doesn't say the overall record is good so "everything must be fine". That's how you become elite, you hold people accountable even when the team is good. Because "good enough" doesn't win championships.
@roaminglion Nick Saban wouldn’t have fired the OL coach because he couldn’t beat Ohio st knowing he really didn’t have the players to do it. We only lost 11 games while li was at Penn St and most of the losses were to Ohio St who has better players and a few games because the defense couldn’t come up with a play to get the win. I guess Limegrover gets the blame for the 11 losses in 4 years but no credit for the 42 wins. His 4 years here just don’t add up to what’s happened the last 2 years. Just my opinion though
https://gopsusports.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/matt-limegrover/23
here’s some good stats
Yeah, I'm done with this when you are posting a bio and career highlights and calling them statistics.
And yes, Nick Saban would absolutely fire a guy after going 11-2 if he felt that he wasn't getting the job done. Because that's exactly what he did when he fired Doug Nussmeier and brought in Lane Kiffen to modernize Alabama's offense. He saw that the offense was slipping and he had to modernize it, and the guy wasn't gettin' it done. That's after that OC won a NC with Alabama in 2012... but Saban knew THE DEFENSE won that title, just because that guy was the OC didn't mean his unit was performing as well as it should.
