4 games remain:
a) Iowa at Home
b) Michigan at Ann Arbor
c) Rutgers at Piscataway
d) Michigan State at Home
Maybe 2 wins. If so, 2-6 means no bowl (if they even have bowl games).
We could actually go 0-8. That is not improbable.
Poor QB play has doomed this team.
At least it was nice to see Devyn Ford and Keyvone Lee recognize Journey Brown on their touchdown runs by lifting 4 fingers in reference to #4 (Journey Brown).
Maybe 2 wins? Our problems go way beyond QB play, but you talk as if we're the only team in the country that has had problems. Michigan is about to get curbstomped by Wisconsin tonight. No game is a gimme, but I expect a close game (probably a L) against Iowa, then 3 wins to close out the regular season. 2 wins is definitely possible, but no way that's our ceiling.
Hate to say it but I think this is a 0 year, first time in hx I believe if it happens.
If it is a 0 year they quit.
IU is 4-0, they should not have beat us, we played bad and they got some critical calls. The trajectories started with that game. We should have claimed we had 10 COVID cases and skipped OSU!
They have gotten better, we have not. We may have played our best half today. OSU either called off the dogs or we played hard. MD and the first half of N was just plain embarrassing, no heart.
Maybe 2 wins? Our problems go way beyond QB play, but you talk as if we're the only team in the country that has had problems. Michigan is about to get curbstomped by Wisconsin tonight. No game is a gimme, but I expect a close game (probably a L) against Iowa, then 3 wins to close out the regular season. 2 wins is definitely possible, but no way that's our ceiling.
I don't think they do lion, there's no doubt in my mind that we're 3-1 or 4-0 if McSorley was QB. Or Fields. Our QB is literally throwing the ball 10 feet to the left of WIDE OPEN receivers. Just look at what our defense did when they actually had confidence that our QB wouldn't just hand it to the other team. 3 points in the 2nd half for Nebraska... 3.
Indiana? That would have been a blowout with any decent QB at the helm. Clifford airmailed 14 points right to them. He leads the Big Ten in INTs, and is fumbling when touched. It's quite obvious to me the team had ZERO confidence in him and gave up at Maryland. We were going down that same road when Franklin mercifully pulled him for Levis. Levis is average at best, but at least doesn't seem to turn the ball over.
Maybe 2 wins? Our problems go way beyond QB play, but you talk as if we're the only team in the country that has had problems. Michigan is about to get curbstomped by Wisconsin tonight. No game is a gimme, but I expect a close game (probably a L) against Iowa, then 3 wins to close out the regular season. 2 wins is definitely possible, but no way that's our ceiling.
I don't think they do lion, there's no doubt in my mind that we're 3-1 or 4-0 if McSorley was QB. Or Fields. Our QB is literally throwing the ball 10 feet to the left of WIDE OPEN receivers. Just look at what our defense did when they actually had confidence that our QB wouldn't just hand it to the other team. 3 points in the 2nd half for Nebraska... 3.
Indiana? That would have been a blowout with any decent QB at the helm. Clifford airmailed 14 points right to them. He leads the Big Ten in INTs, and is fumbling when touched. It's quite obvious to me the team had ZERO confidence in him and gave up at Maryland. We were going down that same road when Franklin mercifully pulled him for Levis. Levis is average at best, but at least doesn't seem to turn the ball over.
To clarify, I'm not saying QB play has not been a PROBLEM. It has. But everything else has gone south from last year as well--the running game, O-line play, defense (especially playing DISCIPLINED defense), mind-boggling coaching calls... And even if the QB play has gone south, there has to be a reason why, and we still have (or had) the same QB from last year, and he was very solid last year. Why is he not this year?
Yes, I agree that inserting Fields improves our record (especially if it takes him away from the Buckeyes), but correcting other problems could change losses into wins as well. Put Micah Parsons and Journey Brown in the lineup, and we'd have won a couple of these games.
Maybe 2 wins? Our problems go way beyond QB play, but you talk as if we're the only team in the country that has had problems. Michigan is about to get curbstomped by Wisconsin tonight. No game is a gimme, but I expect a close game (probably a L) against Iowa, then 3 wins to close out the regular season. 2 wins is definitely possible, but no way that's our ceiling.
I don't think they do lion, there's no doubt in my mind that we're 3-1 or 4-0 if McSorley was QB. Or Fields. Our QB is literally throwing the ball 10 feet to the left of WIDE OPEN receivers. Just look at what our defense did when they actually had confidence that our QB wouldn't just hand it to the other team. 3 points in the 2nd half for Nebraska... 3.
Indiana? That would have been a blowout with any decent QB at the helm. Clifford airmailed 14 points right to them. He leads the Big Ten in INTs, and is fumbling when touched. It's quite obvious to me the team had ZERO confidence in him and gave up at Maryland. We were going down that same road when Franklin mercifully pulled him for Levis. Levis is average at best, but at least doesn't seem to turn the ball over.
To clarify, I'm not saying QB play has not been a PROBLEM. It has. But everything else has gone south from last year as well--the running game, O-line play, defense (especially playing DISCIPLINED defense), mind-boggling coaching calls... And even if the QB play has gone south, there has to be a reason why, and we still have (or had) the same QB from last year, and he was very solid last year. Why is he not this year?
Yes, I agree that inserting Fields improves our record (especially if it takes him away from the Buckeyes), but correcting other problems could change losses into wins as well. Put Micah Parsons and Journey Brown in the lineup, and we'd have won a couple of these games.
While I would say he was not solid last year, he certainly was not this bad. Honestly, I think it's because his limitations play into what Cirocca wants to do.
I think everyone has seen the tape on clifford, and it's quite obvious he cannot throw to the outside. He has the arm, but he just is not comfortable doing it. He locks onto his receivers, and most of his throws come over the middle.
Look at tape from the Minnesota game, Tanner Morgan did two things very well in that game against us... he threw to his WRs, and he looked off the coverage. Clifford does neither well, which does not mesh with what are OC wants to do.
To be honest, no quarterback is going to be successful long-term once people figure out you are uncomfortable throwing to your wide receivers.
Honestly, I think it's because his limitations play into what Cirocca wants to do.
A good coach can tailor his system around his personnel. And a good coach knows which personnel are best for the job. If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
We're getting pretty far from what this thread is about. Again, I think 3 wins out of the next 4 games is very realistic despite all the issues (and I failed to mention Pinegar's inconsistency, which could also be blamed for the loss at Indiana).
Honestly, I think it's because his limitations play into what Cirocca wants to do.
A good coach can tailor his system around his personnel. And a good coach knows which personnel are best for the job. If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
We're getting pretty far from what this thread is about. Again, I think 3 wins out of the next 4 games is very realistic despite all the issues (and I failed to mention Pinegar's inconsistency, which could also be blamed for the loss at Indiana).
Only to a point, a good OC can't help it if his QB is airmailing passes to the other team or throwing INT to defenders who a 5 yards behind in coverage. Especially when the head coach is telling the OC who the QB is. I doubt Ciorrcoa had authority to yank Clifford if he wanted to, that's Franklin.
And no, a good OC can only tailor an offense so much. If your QB can't throw to wide outs and is staring down receivers, no amount of tinkering is going to help.
There's a reason Ryan Day's offense didn't look great when Tate Martell was running it, and it's not because he forgot how to coach or couldn't tailor it to him. It's because Tate MArtell wasn't a good QB.
We say Clifford padded his stats against garbage defenses last year and we’ve played Indiana, Maryland and Nebraska all pure garbage defenses and Clifford makes them look like Ohio st. Clifford was bad in 2 games last year Ohio st and Minnesota and we still should’ve won the Minnesota game but we still won 11 games. Clifford even if not great should be better than this chit we’ve watched the first 4 games James Franklin should’ve yanked his azz after that first int especially after his QB play of the first 3 games and we would’ve beat Nebraska. I can see sticking with your QB if you still find a way to win but when you lose and it’s mostly the QB’s fault get him out of there. Bottom line is Clifford was not this bad last year and I got proof....we were 4-0 after the first 4 games. I think Levis will win the next 4 games it’s not because he’s a great QB it’s because I don’t think he’ll turn the ball o we and beat us. Let’s give the kid a chance and see what he can do because the whole team fed off him when he come in the game yesterday.
Clifford reminds me of Hack, pretty good his first year as a starter and looks lost his 2nd year but I guess on Hacks defense he was playing with walk-ons and 2* and 3* star players and we still won 22 games. If Clifford starts this season and next we might win 3 games that’s how bad this dude is playing. I don’t know WTH is going on I can’t figure it out. Well maybe I do because when Levis come in the game we were a totally different team that has to be the problem.
You're right Southern. We were a different team with Levis at QB. I still believe if we had a good OC we could have won the game.
...If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches....
Only to a point, a good OC can't help it if his QB is airmailing passes to the other team or throwing INT to defenders who a 5 yards behind in coverage. Especially when the head coach is telling the OC who the QB is. I doubt Ciorrcoa had authority to yank Clifford if he wanted to, that's Franklin.
And no, a good OC can only tailor an offense so much. If your QB can't throw to wide outs and is staring down receivers, no amount of tinkering is going to help.
There's a reason Ryan Day's offense didn't look great when Tate Martell was running it, and it's not because he forgot how to coach or couldn't tailor it to him. It's because Tate MArtell wasn't a good QB.
Again, if there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
@mean-green-lion. Clifford played pretty good last year so I’m assuming the coaches were trying to see if he was just having a slump and was hoping he would snap out of it but it didn’t happen.I told somebody this week that if Levis doesn’t pan out we’re in big trouble because that means we have 5 QB’s on the roster that’s not that good or ain’t ready to play. I do think Levis is pretty dang good we’ll see more what the kid has Saturday.
Southern, I do hope and pray James goes with him. I don't think it's a given that he will.
Clifford or Levis is not the answer.....Roberson is the guy. They would be 3-1 if he was the QB.
Size is a concern, but not a deal breaker. Maximizes height with arm angle. Good arm strength and spins ball well. Delivery is free and easy. Throws into tight windows. Gets through progressions. Smart and competitive. Comfortable in pocket. Reacts to pressure well and finds throwing lanes. Poised and composed. Good footwork. Mobile and can gain yards with feet. Recognizes mismatches on pre-snap reads. Drops ball low on delivery at times. Does not always stride into throws. Needs to improve accuracy, especially when throwing outside. Multi-year starter at Power 5 program. NFL free agent.
https://247sports.com/player/taquan-roberson-45572608/
@tnittanylion. When I watched Roberson throw in the spring game last year and he couldn’t hit the backside of a barn. It was worse than Kevin Newson. I hope you’re right but if he was better than Levis he would be the backup especially being 0-4. Don’t get me wrong I hope he’s good I just don’t see him being better today or he would’ve got some snaps.
Neither Levis or Clifford are exceptional runners. Levis is a machine, but he nor Clifford can scramble. Roberson can! Exactly what barn was it that Clifford or Levis hit the past 4 weeks?
Southern, my entire confidence in JF will come down to tomorrows game. I can't find one reason that Penn State doesn't win when I look at talent vs talent. If they lose this game, JF really needs to step aside IMO. A good coach could have this team ready tomorrow, physically and MENTALLY to play....even at 0-4. What else could possibly go wrong that hasn't already the past 4 weeks? Cut these guys loose, finish 5-0 and get to a bowl game....the remaining teams are nothing more than OOC cupcakes that they didn't get to play earlier this year.
I am telling you right now, this is NOT an 0-4 squad. They have a lot of talent and I am totally convinced their losses fall on JF 100%. He is in charge and he is not getting it done! I hope he proves me wrong tomorrow!!I believe tomorrow is the BIGGEST GAME of JF's career at PSU...maybe even bigger than the upset against Ohio State. He can NOT go 0-5....it just ain't an option!
GO STATE!
PS: I like PSU by 3....20-17. I think they make less mistakes, but I still don't feel good with the DC or OC so I don't see a big win, just a win.
The boys will prove Southern to be correct today against Iowa. They will show the promise that should have been seen in all games thus far and they will look like a team that should be undefeated.
The boys will prove Southern to be correct today against Iowa. They will show the promise that should have been seen in all games thus far and they will look like a team that should be undefeated.
Hope you're right TB. Go Lions!
I don't know anything about the kid, but I'm with Southern. I think if he is that good, we should have seen him play significant snaps by now. Unless, of course, Franklin & his OC are totally incompetent.
...If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches....
Only to a point, a good OC can't help it if his QB is airmailing passes to the other team or throwing INT to defenders who a 5 yards behind in coverage. Especially when the head coach is telling the OC who the QB is. I doubt Ciorrcoa had authority to yank Clifford if he wanted to, that's Franklin.
And no, a good OC can only tailor an offense so much. If your QB can't throw to wide outs and is staring down receivers, no amount of tinkering is going to help.
There's a reason Ryan Day's offense didn't look great when Tate Martell was running it, and it's not because he forgot how to coach or couldn't tailor it to him. It's because Tate MArtell wasn't a good QB.
Again, if there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
Again, how is it on the offensive coordinator if he doesn't have authority to make a change?
Not to mention the new OC wasn't allowed to see the quarterbacks until late August anyway because of COVID. He literally had no idea what his roster of quarterbacks looked like. I think it's extremely likely that James Franklin told him who the quarterback was, and he played him until Franklin finally just had to make a change.
It's no secret that Franklin is very loyal and doesn't like to rip players out of a starting spot. The dude made the team suffer through a full year of hackenberg throwing the ball into the ground when he had McSorley on the bench LOL
I know it’s early but Indiana is giving OSU a game, they have actually gotten to Fields a couple times also. So Indiana has better talent then us? I don’t think so, they are BETTER coached. Just my opinion.
...If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches....
Only to a point, a good OC can't help it if his QB is airmailing passes to the other team or throwing INT to defenders who a 5 yards behind in coverage. Especially when the head coach is telling the OC who the QB is. I doubt Ciorrcoa had authority to yank Clifford if he wanted to, that's Franklin.
And no, a good OC can only tailor an offense so much. If your QB can't throw to wide outs and is staring down receivers, no amount of tinkering is going to help.
There's a reason Ryan Day's offense didn't look great when Tate Martell was running it, and it's not because he forgot how to coach or couldn't tailor it to him. It's because Tate MArtell wasn't a good QB.
Again, if there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
Again, how is it on the offensive coordinator if he doesn't have authority to make a change?
Not to mention the new OC wasn't allowed to see the quarterbacks until late August anyway because of COVID. He literally had no idea what his roster of quarterbacks looked like. I think it's extremely likely that James Franklin told him who the quarterback was, and he played him until Franklin finally just had to make a change.
It's no secret that Franklin is very loyal and doesn't like to rip players out of a starting spot. The dude made the team suffer through a full year of hackenberg throwing the ball into the ground when he had McSorley on the bench LOL
My comment wasn't directed specifically or even primarily toward the OC, Roam. "Coaches" is the plural of "coach." And what is going on this season falls more on the coaches collectively than it does on any one player.
...If there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches....
Only to a point, a good OC can't help it if his QB is airmailing passes to the other team or throwing INT to defenders who a 5 yards behind in coverage. Especially when the head coach is telling the OC who the QB is. I doubt Ciorrcoa had authority to yank Clifford if he wanted to, that's Franklin.
And no, a good OC can only tailor an offense so much. If your QB can't throw to wide outs and is staring down receivers, no amount of tinkering is going to help.
There's a reason Ryan Day's offense didn't look great when Tate Martell was running it, and it's not because he forgot how to coach or couldn't tailor it to him. It's because Tate MArtell wasn't a good QB.
Again, if there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches.
Again, how is it on the offensive coordinator if he doesn't have authority to make a change?
Not to mention the new OC wasn't allowed to see the quarterbacks until late August anyway because of COVID. He literally had no idea what his roster of quarterbacks looked like. I think it's extremely likely that James Franklin told him who the quarterback was, and he played him until Franklin finally just had to make a change.
It's no secret that Franklin is very loyal and doesn't like to rip players out of a starting spot. The dude made the team suffer through a full year of hackenberg throwing the ball into the ground when he had McSorley on the bench LOL
My comment wasn't directed specifically or even primarily toward the OC, Roam. "Coaches" is the plural of "coach." And what is going on this season falls more on the coaches collectively than it does on any one player.
"if there was a better QB on the roster all along and the coaches failed to start him, that's on the coaches."
That statement isn't about the season, it's about who the starting quarterback is. I seriously doubt the LB coach, D Coordinator, or any other coach outside of the HC have anything to do with who the starting QB is. Do you?
Regardless, I better understand that you were talking more about the season and not just the quarterback now. Thanks
