Here is kinda what I've been talking about when it comes to Limegrover, and how I thought he didn't properly recruit or have guys ready to plug in:
Career starts returning for Offensive line:
2016: 91
2017: 88
2018: 82
Those were years that we had a lot of experience on the line each year. Those were also our best OLine years under Franklin
2019: 62 (OL dropped off, but not a ton)
2020: 65 (OL dropped off again but not considerably)
2021: 47 (OL dropped off considerably)
These are years where guys took over by default. No one from the previous years developed into someone good enough to take over the position or even challenge for it. The recruits lagged behind and the cupboard was bare. Not letting the new OL coach off the hook, but he didn't have much to work with either.
Year 3 of his tenure could have promise. Tengwall is reportedly a stud who was just too young last year, and Caedan Wallace should be good at right tackle. Also, all reports were the Wormley was penciled in as starting Guard before last season but got hurt. To me, that looks like this:
RT: Wallace - upgrade at RT due to more experience (Tackles were not the problem last year)
G: Wormley - Upgrade at guard, he was supposed to start last year
G: Tengwall - Serious upgrade based on talent level and reports
That leaves center and left tackle. From what most saw, Olu Fashanu was a bright spot in the bowl game at LT. He gave up zero sacks, zero pressures, and committed no penalties. That's solid work from your blindside protector. Many think he's a plug and play guy there, so the tackles next year should be solid. Center? Man..... this is where the transfer from Virginia would have been HUGE. Alas, he went to Michigan. We need either someone to step up huge, or Juice Scruggs to get a lot better. Which could happen.
After that? No real depth. Very big issue, I think we have like 36 career starts coming back for the OL total. That's ridiculously low. We NEED to find some ready to go players in the portal at these positions. We did get a JUCO transfer, which is good... but even if they wouldn't be starters I'd love to get 2 more serviceable back ups. The guy from from Cornell, Nourzad has us in his top 5 and would be a very nice addition.
Also Nick Dawkins. He’s an interior lineman. Fred Hansard and John Lovett live in my town and both said Nick Dawkins is a beast. He should be on the field this year. I think he is mostly playing guard. Number 66 I believe. His dad played pro basketball with the Sixers.
James Franklin signed off on all the OL we’ve recruited and most of the guys were studs coming out of high school that was recruited when Limegrover was here. It’s not like the dudes are whimps gettin run over they’re lost and don’t know who to block on a lot of plays. Maybe Limegrover had a bond with the guys because the OL was better than average when he was the OL coach. I’m sure having 3 OC the last 3 years doesn’t help either. I just don’t know how you blame Limegrover when he’s been gone 2 years and the OL has stunk since he got fired. IMO it’s not just the OL, it’s below average RB’s with way below average QB’s beside Clifford you add all that up it spells disaster and that’s what we’ve watched the last 2 years. IMO it’s james Franklins fault. We shouldn’t have to get OL from Harvard and Cornell either.
@southern-psu-fan I'm done constantly repeating myself with you saying it was his recruiting that stunk, not his coaching.
@roaminglion other teams wanted the OL we recruited to, it wasn’t just Limegrover after these guys most of the teams in top 25 wanted all the OL that’s on the team today. You act like they went to Penn st because they Weren’t good enough to go anywhere else. Most of the guys we recruited were studs coming out of high school stop acting like Harvard is the only other school besides Penn St that wanted them. It’s bad coaching is why they’re not being developed! As I said in the post above it’s a combination of things, below average RB’s, 3 OC in the last 3 years and way below average QB’s besides Clifford. You just blame all 20 OL if that’s what you want.
Just scratch my post above it’s not worth arguing about because I know we all want to win. Hopefully james Franklin gets the team back on track this year if he doesn’t he needs to be gone.
@roaminglion other teams wanted the OL we recruited to, it wasn’t just Limegrover after these guys most of the teams in top 25 wanted all the OL that’s on the team today. You act like they went to Penn st because they Weren’t good enough to go anywhere else. Most of the guys we recruited were studs coming out of high school stop acting like Harvard is the only other school besides Penn St that wanted them. It’s bad coaching is why they’re not being developed! As I said in the post above it’s a combination of things, below average RB’s, 3 OC in the last 3 years and way below average QB’s besides Clifford. You just blame all 20 OL if that’s what you want.
What are you talking about? Point blank: Limegrover did not recruit 4 or 5 star talent for the interior line. He just didn't, most everyone he got were 3* or Tackles. What does HArvard have to do with anything?
@roaminglion other teams wanted the OL we recruited to, it wasn’t just Limegrover after these guys most of the teams in top 25 wanted all the OL that’s on the team today. You act like they went to Penn st because they Weren’t good enough to go anywhere else. Most of the guys we recruited were studs coming out of high school stop acting like Harvard is the only other school besides Penn St that wanted them. It’s bad coaching is why they’re not being developed! As I said in the post above it’s a combination of things, below average RB’s, 3 OC in the last 3 years and way below average QB’s besides Clifford. You just blame all 20 OL if that’s what you want.
Let me ask you this, just answer this simple question: If you really think the new guy isn't a good coach, how is it that he had one of the best offensive lines in college football at Boston College? How come BC's line is still good with the recruits he brought in there? Your logic suggests he either got extremely lucky there, or just plain forgot how to coach the second he moved to Penn State.
Please just answer that question.
Limegrover, Franklin, whomever you want to choose for it... did a piss poor job recruiting interior line talent.
@roaminglion BC has been an average 6-6 team in the ACC the last 4 or 5 years. We got an OL from Harvard and gettin one from Cornell that’s why I brought that up. Limegrover recruited seven 4* OL from 2016-2019. If they ain’t on the team now for whatever reason that doesn’t matter the fact is we recruited very good on the OL and the 3* recruits were also recruited by other top 25 teams so we’re not talking about the sister of the blinds recruits here they were all very well respected coming out of high school. Y’all tell me look on 247 sports recruiting and that’s what I do and from the rankings on these kids we’ve been recruited great. I understand some might not pan out but I ain’t buying all ‘em not panning out. The new guy might be good but he’s not in this system. When Rhyne left there was to much coaching changes and I believe it was stupid of james Franklin firing Limegrover after we just went 11-2 and did it with Clifford as QB and Cain getting a bunch of snaps at RB. We also had brown who kicked butt that year running the ball. I didn’t like the move when he fired Limegrover and we talked about it but I was ok with it as long as we win and that’s what I said but it’s been a disaster because we can’t do anything on the ground and Clifford is a wreck. I honestly don’t care who the coaches are as long as we win but if we ain’t winning they’ll get on my chit list real quick. I hope you’re right and we kill it next year but I ain’t feeling to optimistic on what I’ve watched since Limegrover was fired. Just win is all that matters to me. If we start winning I’ll be his biggest cheerleader I promise you that. Remember, I could care less about pride I hope you’re right because Penn St winning is all that matters my pride can take a backseat.
Like I said roam it ain’t worth arguing about because the bottom line is he’s the coach and we both want him to be successful because I know we both want the same thing and that’s Penn St winning. I can be very hardheaded sometimes especially if I think I’m right but if I’m wrong I promise you I’ll admit it and I hope I’m wrong about this guy. We will see next year for sure.
@roaminglion BC has been an average 6-6 team in the ACC the last 4 or 5 years. We got an OL from Harvard and gettin one from Cornell that’s why I brought that up. Limegrover recruited seven 4* OL from 2016-2019. If they ain’t on the team now for whatever reason that doesn’t matter the fact is we recruited very good on the OL and the 3* recruits were also recruited by other top 25 teams so we’re not talking about the sister of the blinds recruits here they were all very well respected coming out of high school. Y’all tell me look on 247 sports recruiting and that’s what I do and from the rankings on these kids we’ve been recruited great. I understand some might not pan out but I ain’t buying all ‘em not panning out. The new guy might be good but he’s not in this system. When Rhyne left there was to much coaching changes and I believe it was stupid of james Franklin firing Limegrover after we just went 11-2 and did it with Clifford as QB and Cain getting a bunch of snaps at RB. We also had brown who kicked butt that year running the ball. I didn’t like the move when he fired Limegrover and we talked about it but I was ok with it as long as we win and that’s what I said but it’s been a disaster because we can’t do anything on the ground and Clifford is a wreck. I honestly don’t care who the coaches are as long as we win but if we ain’t winning they’ll get on my chit list real quick. I hope you’re right and we kill it next year but I ain’t feeling to optimistic on what I’ve watched since Limegrover was fired. Just win is all that matters to me. If we start winning I’ll be his biggest cheerleader I promise you that. Remember, I could care less about pride I hope you’re right because Penn St winning is all that matters my pride can take a backseat.
Oh FFS, I'm sick and tired of hearing about overall records as an evaluation of offensive lines, QBs, or any other part of a team. It's complete and utter nonsense and I'm done with it.
I don't know why you can't get it through your head that it's entirely possible to have a good offensive line and be 6-6 because your QB and defense suck. Navy always has a good running game, but they don't always have a good QB, receivers, or a defense. That's why some years they are 4-8, and other years they are 8-4. A good record doesn't automatically mean your offensive line is good, just like a bad record doesn't automatically mean your offensive line is bad.
I mean it, I really am sick of it. 2004 Penn State had one of the best defenses in school history (if not NCAA history). We had an exceptional defense in 2003 are well. OUR RECORD SUCKED. They were a TERRIBLE team... but that doesn't mean the DEFENSE was bad. I can't even imagine anyone trying to argue "PSU was 4-7 for a few years" as a legitimate reason to put down our defensive coordinator. Because that is what you are doing. "BC was 6-6" like that's some sort of reason the OL couldn't have been good. Even though EVERY DAMN EXPERT would tell you BC has and had a great offensive line. I'm done. Overall record is how good a TEAM was. It's not an indictment of every single player or position.
John Elway never went to a bowl game, and he only had one winning season at 6-5 for Stanford. According to your logic that must mean he wasn't good.
What I meant was the defenses in the big 10 are much tougher against the run than the ACC. It’s a lot easier to run the ball in the ACC than the SEC or big 10. You’re right, BC usually does have a good OL and QB’s. Let’s give the dude another year and see what happens I’m definitely pulling for him. Nobody wants to be more wrong about this than me I promise you that.
I don't know but some observations..
Dawkins could break a backboard and got called for a foul if he was in the zip code...did he come right out of HS to the Sixers? Moses Malone, on the other hand, rarely got called for a foul.
Recruiting OL seems to be a bit like recruiting QB's. Yea other teams wanted them but that doesn't mean much to me. I think you cast a wide net and some pan out. They look like superstars blocking little guys in HS but measuring heart and meanness is not easy and is not coached.
The games played decline is interesting but what does it suggest? To many OL playing because none are good? Leaving early? To many playing because of injuries? The way you get a high number of games played is by playing young and then regularly. To play young and regularly you must be good young and stay good or when you were young your competition stunk.
I'm sure the awsome coaching by St Nick would have turned our recruits into all stars. 😪
Hope you are right Lion about the 3 or 4 we have next year but you are still short 1 or 2 with no depth.
