Good analysis Roam. Who had better recruiting years? My bias is Harbaugh but I’m too lazy to look it up.

How do you get lucky winning at Vanderbilt and taking over a team with death penalty sanctions? I just don’t get it lol

Franklin is a better coach than many give him credit for. Most importantly he continues to improve. 

Great research and info Roam.

Posted by: @roaminglion

Both Jim Harbaugh and James Franklin have been head coaches in college for a total of 9 years. There's no question that Harbaugh is viewed as the far superior coach, and that Franklin is viewed as (for lack of a better word) lucky. However, diving into their records begins to show how that perception is completely biased. Take a look:

Overall record:

James Franklin: 73-36
Jim Harbaugh: 70-36

Winner: Push (Pretty even)

Bowl record:

James Franklin: 4-4 / 1-1 in major bowls
Jim Harbaugh: 2-6 / 1-2 in major bowls

Winner: Franklin (Better bowl record)

Rankings:

James Franklin: Top 25 five times / Top 10 twice
Jim Harbaugh: Top 25 four times / Top 10 twice

Winner: Franklin (more Top 25's)

Conference Championships:

James Franklin: 1 Big Ten Championship
Jim Harbaugh: No conference championships

Winner: Franklin (Conference Champ)

Teams:

James Franklin: Took over Vanderbilt, who hadn't won 9 games in a season since 1915... won 9 games in back to back seasons. / Took over Penn State, who had crippling sanctions against them and had to rebuild the entire roster... won a Big Ten title and team is now perennially ranked.

Jim Harbaugh: Took over Stanford team that was bad, but not Vanderbilt bad... did a phenomenal job of turning them around and won 12 games in last year there. / Took over a stocked roster at Michigan that had been mismanaged... Had some quality teams, but failed in big games repeatedly.

Winner: Franklin (It's no question Franklin has taken over worse teams)

Awards:

James Franklin: Big Ten Coach of the Year
Jim Harbaugh: N/A

Winner: James Franklin

Everyone always claims Harbaugh is a better college coach than Franklin, however if you take the names off that list and pick who's better? You'd pick Franklin every time. It's no question Franklin has done better during his 9 years of college coaching than Harbaugh has. He even did it while taking over unquestionably harder rebuilds at Vandy and Penn State. Yet he's repeatedly dismissed as a "good recruiter" with no X's & O's knowledge, while Harbaugh is looked at like he's Zeus on Mt. Olympus. For me, I'm glad that perception is beginning to buckle.

One thing is for sure, if Franklin wins the Big Ten this year he will no longer be looked at as lucky. He will definitively join the list of elite coaches IMO.

Head to Head.....

Harbaugh 4

Franklin 1

Need to do something about this! Same record against Ohio State and Sparty.  3-12 against these three teams is not getting it done.  

@mtnittanylion

Ya mean to tell me that head to head stats count for something??

I cant stand Michigan or JH as much as the next guy but c'mon.......who kicked our ass the year we won the conference ship??

No, head to head is not good but Harbaugh had the NCAA on his side for some of those wins.  I'll count 2017 as even up so Franklin is 1 and 1.  After this year he better be leading!

@underlion

lol.....just stop with the ncaa in his pocket crap.  But I agree, we have the upper hand this year.  Lets see how JF responds.

I meant recovering from NCAA sanctions.  But i do believe the B10 still prefers UM and OSU 😉

@underlion

You are exactly right especially with Michigan!

To me, head to head in 2014 & 2015 are ridiculous to count as some sort of indicator of Franklin's coaching ability.

He was 0-6 vs. MSU, Michigan, and OSU during that time. Considering he had 50 scholarship players and basically one hand tied behind his back, who cares that he lost to those teams. Who wouldn't in that situation? I can tell you this... many coaches wouldn't have been able to go 7-6.

If he wins all three games this year, it means he's 2-2 vs. all three schools in the past 4 years with 2 division titles.

I will say this... he needs to win 2 of those 3 games.

He needs to win all 3...he gave away the last 2 games against Ohio State... This year he needs to run it up on Michigan (which I think he will) ... First things first..  He needs to beat Iowa Saturday night which isn't gonna be easy... His first priority is to get the OLine squared away... 

@the-funeral-director

Mr FD: I think we bring home the bacon this Saturday night.  Their defense has yet to see the speed that we're about to bring to town and i know our defense can shut down their offense.  It may not be pretty, but I think they keep it close for the first half and we pull away in the 2nd half.  In fact, I think our TE's have a coming out party this Saturday nite.  Neither Iowa or Mich impressed me all that much.  OSU on the other hand......wow.  I think our defense will be the best they face all year and hopefully we can get into Fields' head early and get him off his game.  

Posted by: @the-funeral-director

He needs to win all 3...he gave away the last 2 games against Ohio State... This year he needs to run it up on Michigan (which I think he will) ... First things first..  He needs to beat Iowa Saturday night which isn't gonna be easy... His first priority is to get the OLine squared away... 

No, he doesn't need to win all three. If he goes 11-1 this year anyone calling him a bad coach after that is a complete idiot.

Posted by: @roaminglion

No, he doesn't need to win all three. If he goes 11-1 this year anyone calling him a bad coach after that is a complete idiot.

I think anyone that calls Coach James  Franklin a bad coach now lacks sufficient cognitive capacity. 

@roaminglion

lol...so we're going to compare their records and achievements for the 9 years that they coached but we're going to throw out 2 of Franklin's years because they dont fit your narrative??  I get it, you like Franklin as a coach and that's cool but there are many on here, me included, that arent sold on him yet.  The bottom line is the man is 3-12 against the top tier teams in our division and he pretty much crapped the bed in last year's bowl game against Kentucky.  You can spin the stats all you want but the facts are still the facts.

Look, as i said before, I'm in no way a Harbaugh or a Michigan fan in any way, shape, or form.  But as far as Franklin goes, to date he hasnt shown his ability to be a game day coach at all.  I'm hoping it will change, mind you,  the next 8 Saturday's will be telling.   

Posted by: @bulldawgs

@roaminglion

lol...so we're going to compare their records and achievements for the 9 years that they coached but we're going to throw out 2 of Franklin's years because they dont fit your narrative??  I get it, you like Franklin as a coach and that's cool but there are many on here, me included, that arent sold on him yet.  The bottom line is the man is 3-12 against the top tier teams in our division and he pretty much crapped the bed in last year's bowl game against Kentucky.  You can spin the stats all you want but the facts are still the facts.

Look, as i said before, I'm in no way a Harbaugh or a Michigan fan in any way, shape, or form.  But as far as Franklin goes, to date he hasnt shown his ability to be a game day coach at all.  I'm hoping it will change, mind you,  the next 8 Saturday's will be telling.   

Regarding "spinning" facts... Why do sanctions not count as a fact? Facts add context, and you are choosing to ignore the fact of sanctions because it doesn't fit your narrative. Sanctions happened. Franklin had a depleted roster and was not, in any way, on a level playing field with other teams. So when you say I'm spinning by actually accounting for a period in time where a coach had an documented, large, and obvious disadvantage... I say others who choose to ignore this fact and simply state he's 3-12 without any context or clarification are the ones spinning. Why? Because they are choosing to leave out information that changes the narrative.

Here's an example:

A kicker was 7-10 on extra points. He sucks right... because those are "the facts" as you say. Well, if you add context to it, like another fact that 3 times the line broke down and someone came right up the middle to block the kick... suddenly the kicker doesn't look like he sucks anymore.

I chose to use all the facts about Franklin, and some of those facts are he had a sanction riddled team in 2014 & 2015. You choose to ignore this fact and act like 2014 & 2015 were normal years.

@roaminglion

I get what you're saying roam, i really do.  But your original post listed 9 years as the body of work that you're comparing.  I'm just puzzled as to why you would list 9 years worth of stats and then come back with "oh by the way, two years should count because of sanctions".  That just seems odd to me.  You either compare the 9 years or you dont.  If you go back to 2016 and compare us to the big 3 we'll still come up lacking.  To me, its not so much THAT we lost to them its the WAY we lost to them in the past three years.  And we can make excuses all day long about dropped passes and missed interceptions, weather delays, and so on and so forth but it will get neither of us anywhere.  

IMO, from what I've seen from the rest of the B1g; OSU should be the only team that gives us trouble and probably wins the day.  Like you, I see us at 11-1.  But, if at the end of the bowl season we have 3 losses then yeah, this team has coaching issues that need resolved.

Posted by: @bulldawgs

@roaminglion

I get what you're saying roam, i really do.  But your original post listed 9 years as the body of work that you're comparing.  I'm just puzzled as to why you would list 9 years worth of stats and then come back with "oh by the way, two years should count because of sanctions".  That just seems odd to me.  You either compare the 9 years or you dont.  If you go back to 2016 and compare us to the big 3 we'll still come up lacking.  To me, its not so much THAT we lost to them its the WAY we lost to them in the past three years.  And we can make excuses all day long about dropped passes and missed interceptions, weather delays, and so on and so forth but it will get neither of us anywhere.  

IMO, from what I've seen from the rest of the B1g; OSU should be the only team that gives us trouble and probably wins the day.  Like you, I see us at 11-1.  But, if at the end of the bowl season we have 3 losses then yeah, this team has coaching issues that need resolved.

You can write about a 9 year span and also reference that two of the years for one coach had significant disadvantages.

I think it is legitimate to say "this is his overall record for 9 years, but remember 2 of the year he was under significant sanctions... so in those years the playing field wasn't even"

That is why the overall head to head is a bit lopsided IMO... One of the coaches was playing with a severe handicap. I think that should at least be mentioned or taken into account for context. This is the same reasoning I brought up how bad a team Stanford was before Harbaugh arrived. Context 😁

I get what you are saying also

James Franklin was 24–15 in 3 seasons at Vanderbilt coaching in the SEC beating Georgia, Tennessee and Florida in the same year. Winning bowl games something Vanderbilt didn’t do for a very long time. Remember also when he was winning all these games the SEC was dominated college football with 2 SEC teams destroying Ohio st in the NC and as hard as that was to do the penn state job was even tougher IMO and we’ve had no losing seasons plus we’ve won the big 10 and a fiesta bowl. It’s really unbelievable what this man has accomplished especially the uphil battles he faced. The great Nick Saban and Meyer could’ve had the Penn st job but they ain’t no way they would’ve taken on what James Franklin did. I’m with bulldawgs on one thing and that’s stop losing to the Kentucky’s especially goi g forward or James Franklin will get on my chit list  .