Apparently no paper trail connecting Harbaugh to the sign stealing. However, plenty of evidence showing a Michigan coach did, in fact, scout and steal signs in a manner that is not allowed and deemed cheating.
Michigan is said to be getting reading to sue if the Big Ten penalizes Harbaugh... and rightfully so because the Big Ten doesnt have a clause that holds the HC responsible for actions of his coaching staff. The NCAA does though, so they could penalize him... and rightfully so.
HOWEVER... The Big Ten DOES have a clause that states the institution is responsible for any coach's actions. So IMO... penalize the team. Sorry, but I dont want to hear "the kids didnt do anything wrong". That's just the "too big to fail", get out of jail free card for coaches to do stupid things and get away with it.
Michigan benefitted from cheating, the NCAA evidence apparently shows it. They should be penalized as a message that coaches better not cheat, or their program will get hit. We've enabled this behavior long enough. Coaches will continue to do stupid chit if the program never pays a price for it.
Especially in today's portal age, kids can transfer if they want... maybe where they wont have the benefit of knowing the other team's plays before the game starts.
^ I don't disagree, but IMO, nothing happens to JH or the team this year, otherwise they acknowledge guilt. I think this will be a Miami/UNC deal where MI tells everyone to pound sand and KMA.
Of course, I could be totally wrong.
Like I said in a previous post, we'll still be waiting in 2025 for an appropriate punishment!
Did Michigan break a rule? Yep, they did. But is this really a big deal? I don't think so....IMO. If you are going to have guys on the sidelines holding signs and making hand signals, then you are putting it out there for everyone to see. My goodness, anybody watching TV can see the signals and eventually figure them out. And anybody who goes to the games can watch the sidelines and take notes.
Yes, what Michigan did broke the rules. However, a lot of the coaches knew this LONG BEFORE it made it headlines and they should have been more discrete on what they were showing on game days.
I don't like Michigan, really not a fan of their coach, but I am also realistic. Did Michigan have an advantage over this?? Probably. Knowing a possible pass play vs a run surely helps. But I go back to the coaches for putting it out there and giving their competitors a chance to figure out their plays.
We can't blame a loss this weekend to Michigan for stealing signs....unless JF is dumb enough to keep what he has!!!
GO STATE!!!!
I do think it's a big, big deal. A wise man once said,"If you can't be trusted in small matters why should I trust you in important matters?"
Or better yet, as a not so wise man (me) says " If you were caught cheating on recruiting and stealing signs, what else have you cheated on but not been caught doing?"
Did Michigan break a rule? Yep, they did. But is this really a big deal? I don't think so....IMO. If you are going to have guys on the sidelines holding signs and making hand signals, then you are putting it out there for everyone to see. My goodness, anybody watching TV can see the signals and eventually figure them out. And anybody who goes to the games can watch the sidelines and take notes.
Yes, what Michigan did broke the rules. However, a lot of the coaches knew this LONG BEFORE it made it headlines and they should have been more discrete on what they were showing on game days.
I don't like Michigan, really not a fan of their coach, but I am also realistic. Did Michigan have an advantage over this?? Probably. Knowing a possible pass play vs a run surely helps. But I go back to the coaches for putting it out there and giving their competitors a chance to figure out their plays.
We can't blame a loss this weekend to Michigan for stealing signs....unless JF is dumb enough to keep what he has!!!
GO STATE!!!!
There is a HUUUUUGEEEE difference between trying to figure out signs during the game (which is legal), and having all the signs before the coin toss. Are you kidding?
So Harbaugh has 'plausible deniability' but he has to play stupid and act like he doesn't know the defense was very lucky in choosing schemes? I mean you can illegally steal signs but eventually what does it matter unless you have a defensive coach calling the alignment based on the stolen sign? So what is the use if the guy that calls the defense isn't involved?
So now you ask, Isn't Harbaugh a defensive minded coach? Does he always let someone else call the defense? If Harbaugh says lets run blitz here does the other guy say OK boss and not tell him it is a pass? All this has to happen in about 10 seconds? Read the sign adjust the defense as best you can with the people you have on the field?
It is more useful the more people that are involved but now nobody knows anything and if that is true it wasn't near as effective as it could have been.
Eh, its Michigan. Minimal harm, no foul.
Yup, Harbaugh would have us believe that he's the most detail oriented, leave no stone unturned cosch in football... but he had no idea they knew the signs. LmaoSo Harbaugh has 'plausible deniability' but he has to play stupid and act like he doesn't know the defense was very lucky in choosing schemes? I mean you can illegally steal signs but eventually what does it matter unless you have a defensive coach calling the alignment based on the stolen sign? So what is the use if the guy that calls the defense isn't involved?
So now you ask, Isn't Harbaugh a defensive minded coach? Does he always let someone else call the defense? If Harbaugh says lets run blitz here does the other guy say OK boss and not tell him it is a pass? All this has to happen in about 10 seconds? Read the sign adjust the defense as best you can with the people you have on the field?
It is more useful the more people that are involved but now nobody knows anything and if that is true it wasn't near as effective as it could have been.
Eh, its Michigan. Minimal harm, no foul.
I here you and agree. My point is, any coach can watch a game on TV and pick up some signs and figure out the play being called. They show the signs being given on TV quite a bit in between plays. You and I could go to the Michigan game on Saturday, watch the signs and then the play and probably get some of them right by the end of the game.
I am not saying what Michigan did is ok, they definitely broke a rule and they should pay some penalty for it. I am really just saying that these coaches are putting their signs out there and sooner or later somebody is going to figure them out. If somebody walks into a bank with a mask on, duffle bag in hand and a gun....they are probably going to rob the bank. It shouldn't take a teller very long to figure this out. The same probably goes for the different signs being signaled from the sidelines.
But like I said earlier, Penn State can't blame Michigan for sign stealing this weekend if they would lose. Whatever happens to Michigan, happens. But I will give you this much. If Penn State wins this weekend, catches Michigan off guard on some big plays, then I MAY be a little more convinced just how much of an advantage Michigan really has had. There is no possible way Michigan should have any advantage now that they have been exposed.
GO STATE!!!
How long has Michigan been getting away with it? Winning the big 10 2 times and beating Ohio St 2 straight years helped big time in recruiting. There’s the advantage Michigan will definitely have but it’s hard to know how much it helped but I’d say it’s big time. The rules are the rules and they are there for a reason.
@rip Can't remember how it goes exactly, so I'll paraphrase a bit. The owner of pest control company we used at the ol' beer making facility, used to say, If you see one rat, there are at least 8 more you didn't see.
I think we can all agree that they should just put a darn headset in the QB helmet and be done with all this nonsense.
The NFL has had it for years.
We had a chance last year to beat Ohio St and we dominate Utah and win the rest of our games besides Michigan and we get hammered in that game. Maybe there’s a reason why?
@southern-psu-fan yes there’s a reason why and it’s because both of their lines were stronger and more physical and there’s a very good chance it’s going to happen again.
@psujoe We’ll see Saturday but if you know the other teams plays your lines might look better than they are. Michigan is good though.
We’ll look at this, Michigan is the least penalized team in college football (link below). What are the odds?
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game
Since we’re talking big 10 I got a question? If Iowa fires Ferintz should Penn St jump all over him and bring him in to be the OL coach. That dude is a very good OL coach he’s just not a good OC?
Off topic but what the heck was wrong with the audio during the PSU vs MD telecast? I can barely hear the play by play guy if at all and the stadiums PA announcer is oddly loud but muffled as is the crowd.
Some team shout hire Ferentz as their DC, because he's excellent at shutting down an offense.Since we’re talking big 10 I got a question? If Iowa fires Ferintz should Penn St jump all over him and bring him in to be the OL coach. That dude is a very good OL coach he’s just not a good OC?
ANN ARBOR, Mich. — The University of Michigan warned Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petitti about overstepping his authority and rushing to judgment, insisting Wednesday that he cannot discipline coach Jim Harbaugh under the conference’s sportsmanship policy for an alleged sign-stealing scheme that has rocked college football.
I copied that off Pennlive. It looks like Michigan is being very arrogant about this imo. They warned the big 10 lol
Yes they are Southern. Very arrogant and the sad thing is they'll get away with it. After all, they are the Flagship team of the B1G! Although, you have to give their President credit for sticking up for his coach & team. Not like Spanier when he caved in to the NCAA & public pressure and threw JoePa and the team under the bus!!
I'd rather the Big Ten do nothing since their bylaws state they can't do anything. If anything, at least they havent forgotten the lesson learned whrn they sanctioned us when they didnt have power to do so.
However, they can punish the institution in this case. The Big Ten bylaws allow it. Juat not Harbaugh
