Mrob was the obvious starter. No brained. Stevens apparently is not the obvious starter. Pretty simple.
Will say again for others. Just because you stuck around doesn’t earn you the starting position. There are many players every year that “stuck around” but didn’t earn the start. You earn starting positions on the field.
some of these responses are hilarious. who among you heard that Franklin told Stevens he will start? RFLMAO! in all my years I've never heard a coach say "stick around, you'll start your sr. season." lol! never. Demand truth? of what? "you'll have your shot" will me the most the staff has told him. His shot wasn't good enough obviously.
"but this "Stevens is the "presumed" starter but I'm not naming a definitive one yet" stuff is nonsense in my opinion." "Stevens has more confidence, but Clifford will gain ground with a couple of games under his belt." Confidence based on what? You have spoken to both? How do you know this?
"If that's really the case, then Franklin is wrong for leading Tommy on" Led him on how? Did you actually hear JF tell him he'll be the starter? I've never heard it.
"Stevens paid his dues and did everything he could for the best of the team. He earned the right to be the starter." HOW? By staying at PSU? While injured? How do you "earn" the right without battling for it and winning?
Here's what we really know:
Franklin has praised Stevens.
Franklin has never said he will start
Franklin always says every position is up for grabs, you have to earn it.
Everything else you all have said is supposition and opinion spun out of control with assumptions.
Obviously Stevens hasn't shown he's the definitive choice. Many coaches notorious for not naming a starter until the first game or week of.
Yes, it's in freaking print. He said he was the "presumed" starter going into camp. I'm not going to google it for you, as you've said to others "google it". It's out there, it happened, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. I just searched for it again, found it easily.
Also, I never said he was told he would definitively start. My posts go out of their way to state he was never told this, and it's the whole freaking point of them: That the "presumed" starter BS is nonsense (that you can go find on your own), and that Franklin should have sh*t or got off the pot with Stevens already. How many damn years do you need to evaluate a guy? Just name him the starter or tell him it's not gonna happen... don't hedge with this "ohh well.... he was going to be the starter but now were not sure because he's injured and we can't really do evaluations..." Come on, it's BS.
I really don't know how else to say this... It's my opinion that Franklin should have just named Stevens the starter or called it a competition from the start. He didn't. He said that Stevens was the starter heading into spring practice, but wouldn't name him the full starter. I think that was a mistake... If Franklin thought Clifford would compete for the job, then say it. If you think Stevens is the starter, then say it. After 4 years he knows what he has in Stevens, and he knew he wouldn't be able to fully participate in spring practices.
Yes, it's in freaking print. He said he was the "presumed" starter going into camp. I'm not going to google it for you, as you've said to others "google it". It's out there, it happened, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. I just searched for it again, found it easily.
Also, I never said he was told he would definitively start. My posts go out of their way to state he was never told this, and it's the whole freaking point of them: That the "presumed" starter BS is nonsense, and that Franklin should have sh*t or got off the pot with Stevens already. How many damn years do you need to evaluate a guy? Just name him the starter or tell him it's not gonna happen... don't hedge with this "ohh well.... he was going to be the starter but now were not sure because he's injured and we can't really do evaluations this spring..."
I really don't know how else to say this... IT'S MY OPINION that Franklin should have just named Stevens the starter or called it a competition from the start. He didn't. He said that Stevens was the starter heading into spring practice, but wouldn't name him the full starter. In my opinion that's not calling it an open competition, because by the end of spring it was a very different message. I just don't agree with this tactic. And please with the "the competition for every position is always open. Rhetorical nonsense... For 3 years McSorley was the starter, please don't tell me there was an open competition at every year at the QB position. Yeah, I get the whole "compete every day" stuff, but there's a difference between open competitions and "don't lose your focus or this guy might take your spot". If Franklin thought Clifford would fully compete for the job, then say it. If you think Stevens is the starter, then say it. After 4 years he knows what he has in Stevens, and he knew he wouldn't be able to fully participate in spring practices.
I'm not reading into things, there wasn't "assumptions". Franklin said the words, I have my opinions of those words.
Roam I totally agree with you on this one. What happens if he names Clifford the starter, Stevens transfer and then Clifford does not produce. No experience QB to replace him with, season down the drain. Personally I was just as impressed with the two new freshman QB as I was with Clifford. The two frosh were going against what might end up being the best defense in the B10, while Clifford was going against 2nd team D. Of all the QB'S I think he is the weakest runner, which in our offense is not a good thing. Just my thoughts.
ok, you're going to have to show me IN PRINT where James Franklin said Stevens is the presumed starter heading into spring practice because i don't see it. EVERYONE knows he's been injured since mid season last year and there's this: He said Stevens could possibly “be a full go” by the end of spring practice — the Blue-White game is April 13 (3 p.m.) — but added, “I’m not sure of that yet.” This was early in spring practice.
On National Signing Day in early February, James Franklin said Stevens would be the No. 1 quarterback, followed by Clifford and Levis, when asked about a future spring depth chart. However, he noted that, like every position, quarterback will be an open competition.
That's as close to naming him the starter as he's come..........being #1 on Feb depth chart means squat. Had Franklin named him starter heading into spring practice it'd have been huge headlines everywhere. Not only for naming an unproven QB the starter, but because HE WAS STILL RECOVERING FROM SURGERY.
As for shitting or get off the pot/4 years to evaluate......lmao....seriously?? Stevens never overtook McSorely, and now finds himself in a battle with an extremely talented QB in Clifford, someone who I predicted would become a starter early in his career after seeing him at his first practice.
A coach owes no player a guarantee that isn't a Barkley, McSorley type talent. None.
ok, you're going to have to show me IN PRINT where James Franklin said Stevens is the presumed starter heading into spring practice because i don't see it. EVERYONE knows he's been injured since mid season last year and there's this: He said Stevens could possibly “be a full go” by the end of spring practice — the Blue-White game is April 13 (3 p.m.) — but added, “I’m not sure of that yet.” This was early in spring practice.
On National Signing Day in early February, James Franklin said Stevens would be the No. 1 quarterback, followed by Clifford and Levis, when asked about a future spring depth chart. However, he noted that, like every position, quarterback will be an open competition.
That's as close to naming him the starter as he's come..........being #1 on Feb depth chart means squat. Had Franklin named him starter heading into spring practice it'd have been huge headlines everywhere. Not only for naming an unproven QB the starter, but because HE WAS STILL RECOVERING FROM SURGERY.
As for shitting or get off the pot/4 years to evaluate......lmao....seriously?? Stevens never overtook McSorely, and now finds himself in a battle with an extremely talented QB in Clifford, someone who I predicted would become a starter early in his career after seeing him at his first practice.
A coach owes no player a guarantee that isn't a Barkley, McSorley type talent. None.
LMAO, so because Stevens never overtook arguably the best starting QB in Penn State history, that means they were unable to evaluate him otherwise? Again, if they don't know what they have in Stevens at this point, nothing in the next 4 months is going to enlighten them more. He is what he is.
Also, please stop arguing things I'm not saying. I didn't say he owed Tommy Stevens a guarantee, or anyone else. I stated it was my opinion that Franklin handled it wrong, and after 4 freaking years should understand who Stevens is and what he can do. If it's Clifford, then it's Clifford. If it's Stevens, then it's Stevens. Enough with the "oh it's so hard to choose" thing. Just play the guy who is better... But the hedging is what bothers me. Again, MY OPINION. I know there are times when it is hard for coaches to choose between guys, but feel in this case this decision should have already been made.
Obviously, I don't buy the "every position is open" stuff. I've said before, it's rhetorical nonsense in my opinion. Sure, it sounds good in a sound bite but who in their right mind thinks the Will LB position is "open" right now? LMAO. Parsons is the starter, I can guarantee that unless he gets hurt no one else is "competing" for that job any more McSorely was "competing" for the starting QB job in 2015. Had it been really "open", I doubt Hackenberg would have been the starter the whole year.
Look, it's just my opinion. I love Franklin as a coach, I think he's doing a great job. That said, I do disagree with some things he does. Examples being Farmer continuing to play last year, and the crazy rotations at practically every defensive position last year as well. What I am not doing is saying "it's a fact" he is wrong, of course this is all opinion... and mine is that I feel he handled it wrong.
Yes, it's in freaking print. He said he was the "presumed" starter going into camp. I'm not going to google it for you, as you've said to others "google it". It's out there, it happened, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. I just searched for it again, found it easily.
Also, I never said he was told he would definitively start. My posts go out of their way to state he was never told this, and it's the whole freaking point of them: That the "presumed" starter BS is nonsense, and that Franklin should have sh*t or got off the pot with Stevens already. How many damn years do you need to evaluate a guy? Just name him the starter or tell him it's not gonna happen... don't hedge with this "ohh well.... he was going to be the starter but now were not sure because he's injured and we can't really do evaluations this spring..."
I really don't know how else to say this... IT'S MY OPINION that Franklin should have just named Stevens the starter or called it a competition from the start. He didn't. He said that Stevens was the starter heading into spring practice, but wouldn't name him the full starter. In my opinion that's not calling it an open competition, because by the end of spring it was a very different message. I just don't agree with this tactic. And please with the "the competition for every position is always open. Rhetorical nonsense... For 3 years McSorley was the starter, please don't tell me there was an open competition at every year at the QB position. Yeah, I get the whole "compete every day" stuff, but there's a difference between open competitions and "don't lose your focus or this guy might take your spot". If Franklin thought Clifford would fully compete for the job, then say it. If you think Stevens is the starter, then say it. After 4 years he knows what he has in Stevens, and he knew he wouldn't be able to fully participate in spring practices.
I'm not reading into things, there wasn't "assumptions". Franklin said the words, I have my opinions of those words.
So I did quite an extensive search on the internet and no where did I see where JF said Stevens would be the "presumed starter"
Feb 7, 2019 Stevens entering camp as QB starter: Franklin declined to discuss Stevens’ health after undergoing offseason surgery. But, when asked if would be the No. 1 QB this spring, the head coach answered in the affirmative — with a caveat of sorts. QUOTE: So obviously we’re not in a situation to name a starter really at any position,” he said. “But, yeah, when we start out, you know, you’ve got to put them in order. So Tommy will be No. 1 and Sean (Clifford) will be No. 2 and (Will) Levis will be No. 3 and so forth down the line.”
Sept 18, 2018 https://www.tri-cityherald.com/latest-news/article218609560.html
Feb 6, 2019
So if Stevens was the #2 under Trace and Clifford the #3 under Stevens it would seem logical that Stevens would move to #1 when Trace left. The one thing I did see repeatedly was JF talking about a competition not only at QB but in all positions. He also, multiple times, made reference to Tommy not playing or practicing due to injury and surgery and Clifford gaining confidence and experience getting reps with Tommy being injured and Clifford getting game reps at QB and having success.
SO, I don't need to be attacked, ridiculed or demeaned, I would just like to see the quote of the "presumed starter" comments cause I can't find it. I also don't see where JF wronged Tommy Stevens. The dude has not had any meaningful play at QB in quite some time so I can see where he wouldn't be ready to name a starter.
Yes, it's in freaking print. He said he was the "presumed" starter going into camp. I'm not going to google it for you, as you've said to others "google it". It's out there, it happened, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. I just searched for it again, found it easily.
Also, I never said he was told he would definitively start. My posts go out of their way to state he was never told this, and it's the whole freaking point of them: That the "presumed" starter BS is nonsense, and that Franklin should have sh*t or got off the pot with Stevens already. How many damn years do you need to evaluate a guy? Just name him the starter or tell him it's not gonna happen... don't hedge with this "ohh well.... he was going to be the starter but now were not sure because he's injured and we can't really do evaluations this spring..."
I really don't know how else to say this... IT'S MY OPINION that Franklin should have just named Stevens the starter or called it a competition from the start. He didn't. He said that Stevens was the starter heading into spring practice, but wouldn't name him the full starter. In my opinion that's not calling it an open competition, because by the end of spring it was a very different message. I just don't agree with this tactic. And please with the "the competition for every position is always open. Rhetorical nonsense... For 3 years McSorley was the starter, please don't tell me there was an open competition at every year at the QB position. Yeah, I get the whole "compete every day" stuff, but there's a difference between open competitions and "don't lose your focus or this guy might take your spot". If Franklin thought Clifford would fully compete for the job, then say it. If you think Stevens is the starter, then say it. After 4 years he knows what he has in Stevens, and he knew he wouldn't be able to fully participate in spring practices.
I'm not reading into things, there wasn't "assumptions". Franklin said the words, I have my opinions of those words.
So I did quite an extensive search on the internet and no where did I see where JF said Stevens would be the "presumed starter"
Feb 7, 2019 Stevens entering camp as QB starter: Franklin declined to discuss Stevens’ health after undergoing offseason surgery. But, when asked if would be the No. 1 QB this spring, the head coach answered in the affirmative — with a caveat of sorts. QUOTE: So obviously we’re not in a situation to name a starter really at any position,” he said. “But, yeah, when we start out, you know, you’ve got to put them in order. So Tommy will be No. 1 and Sean (Clifford) will be No. 2 and (Will) Levis will be No. 3 and so forth down the line.”
Sept 18, 2018 https://www.tri-cityherald.com/latest-news/article218609560.html
Feb 6, 2019
So if Stevens was the #2 under Trace and Clifford the #3 under Stevens it would seem logical that Stevens would move to #1 when Trace left. The one thing I did see repeatedly was JF talking about a competition not only at QB but in all positions. He also, multiple times, made reference to Tommy not playing or practicing due to injury and surgery and Clifford gaining confidence and experience getting reps with Tommy being injured and Clifford getting game reps at QB and having success.
SO, I don't need to be attacked, ridiculed or demeaned, I would just like to see the quote of the "presumed starter" comments cause I can't find it. I also don't see where JF wronged Tommy Stevens. The dude has not had any meaningful play at QB in quite some time so I can see where he wouldn't be ready to name a starter.
Okay, one last time... I don't think Franklin "wronged" anyone or that anyone was owed anything. I disagree with how he handled the situation.
I am done responding to posts asking why or saying that I stated Franklin wronged or deliberately messed with Stevens. I simply disagree with the way the whole QB starter situation has gone.
Again, I never said Stevens was entitled to the starting position.
Yes, it's in freaking print. He said he was the "presumed" starter going into camp. I'm not going to google it for you, as you've said to others "google it". It's out there, it happened, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did. I just searched for it again, found it easily.
Also, I never said he was told he would definitively start. My posts go out of their way to state he was never told this, and it's the whole freaking point of them: That the "presumed" starter BS is nonsense, and that Franklin should have sh*t or got off the pot with Stevens already. How many damn years do you need to evaluate a guy? Just name him the starter or tell him it's not gonna happen... don't hedge with this "ohh well.... he was going to be the starter but now were not sure because he's injured and we can't really do evaluations this spring..."
I really don't know how else to say this... IT'S MY OPINION that Franklin should have just named Stevens the starter or called it a competition from the start. He didn't. He said that Stevens was the starter heading into spring practice, but wouldn't name him the full starter. In my opinion that's not calling it an open competition, because by the end of spring it was a very different message. I just don't agree with this tactic. And please with the "the competition for every position is always open. Rhetorical nonsense... For 3 years McSorley was the starter, please don't tell me there was an open competition at every year at the QB position. Yeah, I get the whole "compete every day" stuff, but there's a difference between open competitions and "don't lose your focus or this guy might take your spot". If Franklin thought Clifford would fully compete for the job, then say it. If you think Stevens is the starter, then say it. After 4 years he knows what he has in Stevens, and he knew he wouldn't be able to fully participate in spring practices.
I'm not reading into things, there wasn't "assumptions". Franklin said the words, I have my opinions of those words.
So I did quite an extensive search on the internet and no where did I see where JF said Stevens would be the "presumed starter"
Feb 7, 2019 Stevens entering camp as QB starter: Franklin declined to discuss Stevens’ health after undergoing offseason surgery. But, when asked if would be the No. 1 QB this spring, the head coach answered in the affirmative — with a caveat of sorts. QUOTE: So obviously we’re not in a situation to name a starter really at any position,” he said. “But, yeah, when we start out, you know, you’ve got to put them in order. So Tommy will be No. 1 and Sean (Clifford) will be No. 2 and (Will) Levis will be No. 3 and so forth down the line.”
Sept 18, 2018 https://www.tri-cityherald.com/latest-news/article218609560.html
Feb 6, 2019
So if Stevens was the #2 under Trace and Clifford the #3 under Stevens it would seem logical that Stevens would move to #1 when Trace left. The one thing I did see repeatedly was JF talking about a competition not only at QB but in all positions. He also, multiple times, made reference to Tommy not playing or practicing due to injury and surgery and Clifford gaining confidence and experience getting reps with Tommy being injured and Clifford getting game reps at QB and having success.
SO, I don't need to be attacked, ridiculed or demeaned, I would just like to see the quote of the "presumed starter" comments cause I can't find it. I also don't see where JF wronged Tommy Stevens. The dude has not had any meaningful play at QB in quite some time so I can see where he wouldn't be ready to name a starter.
Okay, one last time... I don't think Franklin "wronged" anyone or that anyone was owed anything. I disagree with how he handled the situation.
I am done responding to posts asking why or saying that I stated Franklin wronged or deliberately messed with Stevens. I simply disagree with the way the whole QB starter situation has gone.
Again, I never said Stevens was entitled to the starting position.
OK sorry. I interpreted your comment "Honestly, I just feel they have led this kid on." as they did wrong by him.
Navy, that's understandable and I could have phrased that better. My apologies to everyone if that made you think I was saying the wronged or harmed him.
Roam no issues Man. Just trying to understand the different perspectives. Well, everyones except for Niccie's. Theres NEVER any value in that!!!
Bottom line.....Let the best man play.....just win!
My issue with you roam is you stated franklin said the starting job belonged to Stevens. He never said that. Period. You’re all assuming he was led on, lied to, whatever. He wasn’t. It was his job to claim. That’s the only truth there is. Everything else is built on opinions from the internet. Nobody at psu ever told him he’s the heir apparent. I know this for a fact. So your opinion on how he was treated and what he should have been told means nothing because you’re assuming he was promised something when he wasn’t.
My issue with you roam is you stated franklin said the starting job belonged to Stevens. He never said that. Period. You’re all assuming he was led on, lied to, whatever. He wasn’t. It was his job to claim. That’s the only truth there is. Everything else is built on opinions from the internet. Nobody at psu ever told him he’s the heir apparent. I know this for a fact. So your opinion on how he was treated and what he should have been told means nothing because you’re assuming he was promised something when he wasn’t.
I said he was the presumed starter and that Franklin said he was #1 going into spring. He did, Navy posted one quote but there are others out there as well.
I never, and I've said this multiple freaking times now... even directly responding to you... stated that he was "promised" the starting job.
So... for the last damn time... stop telling me I said or assumed he was promised the starting job.
I think you need to go back and read your comments roam. He never said he was the presumed starter. He said he was #1 on depth chart. That’s it. U also argued you don’t like how it was handled. It was handled like a coach would handle it. Win the job. Your whole argument on this thread is based on supposition. Now we have Tommy’s dad sayin they can’t afford a Qb battle his last year so he’s gone for sure. THERES your problem. Instead of winning the starting job daddy and tommy want to go steal one from someone who did. He has said “it’s too late in his career to take a chance.” At that point, he doesn’t deserve a spot at penn state. We want people who are competitors. Not pussies who don’t want to take a chance. Take a chance on what? He isn’t going to light up the world and get drafted. Lol.
That’s really disappointing he didn’t want to fight it out with our QB’s. WTH has got into people thinking you don’t have to fight for what you want. At work we get monthly stats on how we drive because the computer in the truck tracks everything we do and all the truck drivers are in competition to see who grades better lol. I know it’s kind of stupid but we like to brag when our name is at the top lol.
What's being played out is a common thing among the millennial group. I see it in the work place frequently; promote me or I'm outta here or something like that.....No different for athletes. And in some cases it really does involve timing, personalities and expectations. Used to piss me off, but I finally realized its best for parties to separate when the goals don't match. If he were a quitter he'd just go home, sulk and quit the game. Another way of looking at it, would you stay in your current position (not moving up when you think you should) when there is another option outside of your current employer?
So, he’ll transfer to another school and try to beat out a kid who was the presumed starter there. Ironic.
I think you need to go back and read your comments roam. He never said he was the presumed starter. He said he was #1 on depth chart. That’s it. U also argued you don’t like how it was handled. It was handled like a coach would handle it. Win the job. Your whole argument on this thread is based on supposition. Now we have Tommy’s dad sayin they can’t afford a Qb battle his last year so he’s gone for sure. THERES your problem. Instead of winning the starting job daddy and tommy want to go steal one from someone who did. He has said “it’s too late in his career to take a chance.” At that point, he doesn’t deserve a spot at penn state. We want people who are competitors. Not pussies who don’t want to take a chance. Take a chance on what? He isn’t going to light up the world and get drafted. Lol.
Great Bill, I'm not playing the semantics of "he didn't say starter, he just said #1 (which is the starter)" Fine, good for you...
Also, I find it ironic that you're telling me that I'm assuming all sorts of things... then go on to say: "Now we have Tommy’s dad sayin they can’t afford a Qb battle his last year so he’s gone for sure. THERES your problem. Instead of winning the starting job daddy and tommy want to go steal one from someone who did."
Daddy AND TOMMY do, huh? Funny, I don't see where Tommy said that anywhere... do you? Seems like your assuming how Tommy feels based on his father's words. So basically a player "doesn't deserve a spot at Penn State" because of what their parents say?
Also, I thought you said no player is guaranteed a spot, but now you're stating that he's going to go "steal" it from somewhere else? Can't have it both ways
(((sleep deprived 3 week old baby)))
Ugh, I don't mean to sound so snippy Bill, just... ugh tired. lol
Babies will keep you up Roam lol
Actually roam, being called #1 on winter depth chart means nothing in the football world. It does NOT mean "the starter"..
And yes, Tommy DID say if he wasn't named the starter he would be exploring his options.
Yes, no player is guaranteed a spot. When I said they want to go steal someone else's job, I meant it. They'll end up somewhere with a QB that has less talent, that's what they'll shop for. bank it.
Babies will keep you up Roam lol
OMG Southern, you are so right 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳
My judgement might be impaired at the moment LMAO
Not that it matters, but I really wonder who is the driving force between the transfer decision - Tommy or his father?
Not that it matters, but I really wonder who is the driving force between the transfer decision - Tommy or his father?
Tommy told his dad if he wasn’t named starter he’d explore options.
