Interesting statistic is that our line was actually ranked very high when it came to getting stuffed and short yardage situations... which seems to be a major criticism of many on here:
We were ranked #15 in Power Success Rate (percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown) - More often than not, when we needed short yardage we got it.
Ranked #13 in Stuff Rate (percentage of carries by running backs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage) - We were good about not getting caught in the backfield.
Ranked #18 in Standard Downs Sack Rate (Unadjusted sack rate for standard downs pass attempts) - Did not give up sacks on normal downs
That said, we did have issues on the line. Here's where our issues were:
Ranked #66 in Standard Downs Line Yards per Carry (The raw, unadjusted per-carry line yardage for a team on standard downs: 1st, 2nd & 7, 3rd or 4th & 4) - Did not do well on run plays for normal downs. Constantly brought down at 2 or 3 yards. This is where Cain made a big difference, and Brown later in the season.
Ranked #88 in Passing Downs Line Yards per Carry (The same unadjusted averages for rushing on passing downs) - Weirdly enough we did worse running the ball on passing downs.
Ranked #122 in Passing Downs Sack Rate: (Unadjusted sack rate for passing downs pass attempts) - This is obviously our worst area. When in passing situations, we either held the ball way too long or couldn't protect the QB.
I was surprised by these numbers, because I actually thought we didn't have a good power rushing line. However, that's actually what we did well, more than most other teams. Our line was very, very good in short yardage situations and did not give up negative rushing plays.
What was concerning in the run game was the lack of good yardage on regular downs. This was a big problem through the year, and a constant complaint among the board here as to why Cain wasn't in the game. The chief reason for Cain playing (given by many here) was that he fell forward, and was able to get 4-5 yards when the other backs only got 2-3. Also, we seemed to do worse on pass plays running the ball, though that could be skewed by RPO where the QB kept the ball and/or got sacked.
In the passing game, we protected the QB well in regular downs but had obvious issues when the opposing team knew we needed to pass. Like... horrific pass protection in those cases. Some of that is on Clifford holding onto the ball too long, some of it is on the OL, and some of it is on the play-calling IMO. No one person or squad to blame, when it's that bad on passing downs but pretty good otherwise, it's hard to pin it on just one thing.
One thing to not about all these numbers... For the most part they are equal or better than previous years. 2016 & 2017 these numbers weren't very good actually. 2018 the normal down running plays were better with Miles Sanders, but short yardage and stuff plays were worse. Sacks numbers were about the same.
Long story short, our line has gotten better every year. IMO the reason for the rushing drop off on regular plays this year is the RB Rotation and youth of the group. I think that part of the offense will be much better next year.
The only consistently backwards trend in the numbers was sacks on long yardage situations... which is concerning. We seem to be getting worse every year in that spot.
The OL has improved every year since James Franklin got here. I didn’t see any problems this year and last year that every other team doesn’t have. When Brown stepped his game up the OL was just fine. I think I was a little impatient with brown at first because he wasn’t hitting the holes but on his defense the RB rotation didn’t let him get any rhythm. I was wrong and I’m glad I was wrong because penn st winning is more important than my pride lol
The team needs to win on 1st and 2nd down... Giving the offense way more options on 3rd down short.
The team needs to win on 1st and 2nd down... Giving the offense way more options on 3rd down short.
That's why I wanted to see Cain in all year, and I think Franklin was going to use him a lot more after Iowa... but he seemed to have a lingering injury.
Every time Cain was in he was falling forward, gaining 4-5 yards a carry and putting the offense in much better 2nd & 6, 3rd & 2 type situations.
The OL has improved every year since James Franklin got here. I didn’t see any problems this year and last year that every other team doesn’t have. When Brown stepped his game up the OL was just fine. I think I was a little impatient with brown at first because he wasn’t hitting the holes but on his defense the RB rotation didn’t let him get any rhythm. I was wrong and I’m glad I was wrong because penn st winning is more important than my pride lol
The stats show that our pass protection in obvious passing plays is horrendous. That stat does not lie, we are among the worst teams in college football when it comes to protecting our QB in passing situations. That needs to change, can't let teams pin their ears back and crush our QB.
It’s hard to have perfect stats. I’d like to see more runs on 1st and 2nd down because when you run the ball down teams throats it wears their defense down. Our offense doesn’t wear the defense down but it might not be designed to i don’t know. What we are doing is working that’s why we are winning so many games we just need to make a few more plays in crunch time when the game is on the line.
The OL has improved every year since James Franklin got here. I didn’t see any problems this year and last year that every other team doesn’t have. When Brown stepped his game up the OL was just fine. I think I was a little impatient with brown at first because he wasn’t hitting the holes but on his defense the RB rotation didn’t let him get any rhythm. I was wrong and I’m glad I was wrong because penn st winning is more important than my pride lol
The stats show that our pass protection in obvious passing plays is horrendous. That stat does not lie, we are among the worst teams in college football when it comes to protecting our QB in passing situations. That needs to change, can't let teams pin their ears back and crush our QB.
Absolutely! We definitely need to improve in this area. I tend to think along the lines you mentioned in your previous post, Roam. It's most probably due to a combination of poor blocking, QB holding on too long and the play calling. Overall, I'm satisfied with the OL since they have improved each year under Limegrover.
So I am confused Roam, are we or aren't we issuing the Turnstile of the Year award this year?
@bobs-dimpled-chin
That's up to niccy for the presentation.
It’s hard to have perfect stats. I’d like to see more runs on 1st and 2nd down because when you run the ball down teams throats it wears their defense down. Our offense doesn’t wear the defense down but it might not be designed to i don’t know. What we are doing is working that’s why we are winning so many games we just need to make a few more plays in crunch time when the game is on the line.
There's perfect, and then there's 122 out of 130 teams bad. Come on Southern. Stop saying "what we are doing is working" when it's obviously not in certain areas. If we are to get better we just can't sit back and say "well, we suck in this area but it's working in these areas so who cares"
I agree, we need to get better but I’m more worried about catching the ball and penalties because when we’ve lost most of the time is because we had stupid penalties or we didn’t catch or take care of the football.
I agree, we need to get better but I’m more worried about catching the ball and penalties because when we’ve lost most of the time is because we had stupid penalties or we didn’t catch or take care of the football.
This is true but the OL play at times made it very hard for Rahne to call a smooth, tempo game with their inconsistent play
I agree, we need to get better but I’m more worried about catching the ball and penalties because when we’ve lost most of the time is because we had stupid penalties or we didn’t catch or take care of the football.
Why do you think it's not possible to walk and chew gum at the same time?
It's entirely possible to work on catching the ball better AND focus on OL play getting better. It's not like you have to choose just one
I’m not worried about the OL it’s doing just fine IMO but that doesn’t mean it can’t get better heck even Alabama’s OL can get better and they’ve got the best players in college football and that’s not what beat us in the USC, Ohio st, Michigan State games, penalties and not catching and taking care of the ball was. If the OL wasn’t gettin better I might be worried as y’all are but that’s not the case from what I see. I’m more worried about the DL than the OL
I’m not worried about the OL it’s doing just fine IMO but that doesn’t mean it can’t get better heck even Alabama’s OL can get better and they’ve got the best players in college football and that’s not what beat us in the USC, Ohio st, Michigan State games, penalties and not catching and taking care of the ball was. If the OL wasn’t gettin better I might be worried as y’all are but that’s not the case from what I see. I’m more worried about the DL than the OL
FFS... I literally JUST SHOWED YOU THE STATS PROVING IT ISN'T FINE. In passing situations they are just about THE WORST OL in college football at protecting the QB
That isn't opinion, its a damn fact. They NEED to get better at it, 122 out of 130 is not acceptable
Just like my comment in the Who's coaching the Cotton Bowl thread, another reason why I hope Limegrower is replaced. We have had enough years to see what he is capable of, and to climb into the "Elite" category, this team will need much better OL play.
Them stats don’t mean chit to me roam because they’re very misleading. We don’t run the ball that much on 1st and 2nd down so that puts us at 3rd And long when we don’t get any yardage and a lot of times we do t get yardage throwing the ball on 1st and 2nd down because we drop it and we’ve had penalties. I don’t give a rats butt about stats I care about did you win or did you lose it’s that simple! You can always find a stat that doesn’t look good but who gives a chit if you’re winning and we are winning and when we didn’t win it was because we dropped or fumbled the ball or had a stupid penalty it’s that simple. This is the offense on the way James Franklin wants to run it and it’s working that’s why we’re winning more games that 90% of the teams out there and that’s why we’re finishing in the top 10
I've said for the last couple of years, lol, there is no physical play from the O'line and there are no big nasties that play on the O'line; not having that play and type of player's eventually catches up with a team. In regards to wins, you have to look at the quality of wins over good and bad teams and not just "a win is a win" b/c that also catches up with a team, there is only so long that a team can pull the rabbit out of the hat. Sure all teams pull out some squeakers or lay an egg but what that team does consistently tells the tale. This team consistently has two main problems IMO: the O'line (scheme, technique, physicality, progressive development (every year for one reason or the other); and secondary coverage especially on 3rd and long; hell I'd just about take the bar stool bet that the other team is gonna get a first down on 3rd and long or longer every time (actually it would be interesting to see how many times the other team got first down on say, 3rd and 8+) any stats guys here? Yeah I think its a combination of factors but I have to say you at some point you have to recruit a different style of player, change your scheme and/or look at the coaching staff. Either set the scheme and recruit for that scheme or recruit and then set the scheme, of course thats not a pure play, but damn you gotta have coaches that recognize that and then capitalize on what they do have otherwise other teams figure it out, exploit it and then kick your ass.
I've said for the last couple of years, lol, there is no physical play from the O'line and there are no big nasties that play on the O'line; not having that play and type of player's eventually catches up with a team. In regards to wins, you have to look at the quality of wins over good and bad teams and not just "a win is a win" b/c that also catches up with a team, there is only so long that a team can pull the rabbit out of the hat. Sure all teams pull out some squeakers or lay an egg but what that team does consistently tells the tale. This team consistently has two main problems IMO: the O'line (scheme, technique, physicality, progressive development (every year for one reason or the other); and secondary coverage especially on 3rd and long; hell I'd just about take the bar stool bet that the other team is gonna get a first down on 3rd and long or longer every time (actually it would be interesting to see how many times the other team got first down on say, 3rd and 8+) any stats guys here? Yeah I think its a combination of factors but I have to say you at some point you have to recruit a different style of player, change your scheme and/or look at the coaching staff. Either set the scheme and recruit for that scheme or recruit and then set the scheme, of course thats not a pure play, but damn you gotta have coaches that recognize that and then capitalize on what they do have otherwise other teams figure it out, exploit it and then kick your ass.
This ☝🏻
I’ve said it a million times also, but people tend to see what they want to see. The OL development is moving at the speed of a fossil forming. PSU has brought in multiple high ranked OL prospects and every year the OL perform as about the same as the previous year. Hire a high profile, established OC and take his recommendation on the next OL coach. Having a offensive scheme that doesn’t fit the strength of the OL coach is like putting a square peg in a round hole.
I
They have brought in some good linemen and some are playing in the NFL right now and we have a couple right now that might be playing on Sunday. James Franklin knows what all the stats are but I’m telling you unless it’s beating us he doesn’t care. They see something in practice that tells them they can win on big plays and our QB’s feet that’s why we’re not running the ball down teams throats. When you like to win throwing the ball down field most of the time you’re not going to be good on 3rd downs. At the end of the day James Franklin looks and ask himself what beat us when we lost and was our guys in position to make a play and win the game. No team plays a perfect game the only thing the coaches can do is put guys in position to make a play and win the game and our coaches have done that and that’s all James Franklin will look at. He doesn’t care about stats as long as we are winning and the stat ain’t beating us. This is my opinion anyway
They have brought in some good linemen and some are playing in the NFL right now and we have a couple right now that might be playing on Sunday. James Franklin knows what all the stats are but I’m telling you unless it’s beating us he doesn’t care. They see something in practice that tells them they can win on big plays and our QB’s feet that’s why we’re not running the ball down teams throats. When you like to win throwing the ball down field most of the time you’re not going to be good on 3rd downs. At the end of the day James Franklin looks and ask himself what beat us when we lost and was our guys in position to make a play and win the game. No team plays a perfect game the only thing the coaches can do is put guys in position to make a play and win the game and our coaches have done that and that’s all James Franklin will look at. He doesn’t care about stats as long as we are winning and the stat ain’t beating us. This is my opinion anyway
It IS beating them. It beat them against Ohio St this year and almost every game they lost the last 4 years. If they would have had an OL that could salt away a lead the past few years they would have had a few more wins. But they didn’t, and coaching staff didn’t trust them when the game was on the line and they were forced to throw to avoid the OL deficiencies and it didn’t work. Ohio St is the only measuring stick that should matter right now. Period. Bottom line. The OL is underperforming.
Bell drops the ball that’s right in his hands in the Rose bowl that would’ve ended the game with a win plus we scored 49 points in 2016. Also Hamilton had the winning TD pass that went right through his hands to end the game in 2016 against Pitt. We lost 3 games and could’ve won 2 of the games if we caught the football. 2017 we lost 2 games 1 because of a stupid penalty against Michigan State that let them kick a game winning FG when we got the stop. We scored plenty of points in the Ohio st game but we got a few injuries in the Ohio st game. 2018 we dropped a game winning INT against Michigan st that would’ve ended the game with a win. Boobie fumbles the ball when we were putting Ohio st away and had he not fumbled we go up 3 scores Ohio st couldn’t stop us and we scored enough points to win we just didn’t get it done and the kid from Ohio st made a great play to get them the win. It happens. The drops were beating us last year and James Franklin fired the WR’s coach so like I said if a stat is beating him he’ll make a change. 2029 we had a chance in the Minnesota but a devastating penalty killed our chances at a win. Don’t forget that Brown dropped the ball that would’ve tied the game up this year at Ohio st brown just didn’t catch the ball. The other losses were Kentucky and we got killed by Michigan twice. Maybe them 3 losses in 3 years are on the OL and that’s exactly what James Franklin sees or Limegrover wouldn’t have a job. As for Ohio st they have better players right now so we still have work to do in recruiting. We ain’t lost that many games but I do agree about Ohio st is what we need to compare our team to.
We always identify the plays and calls that go against us. Ignore them for statistical purposes, an equal number went our way so we are still where we are. A middle first tier B10 team that needs to improve in some areas. There is OSU and then maybe 3 teams, we are one of those 3. I think we have the best opportunity to be #2 competing for #1.
Great offensive lines matter. In 94 we gave up how many sacks?
Them stats don’t mean chit to me roam because they’re very misleading. We don’t run the ball that much on 1st and 2nd down so that puts us at 3rd And long when we don’t get any yardage and a lot of times we do t get yardage throwing the ball on 1st and 2nd down because we drop it and we’ve had penalties. I don’t give a rats butt about stats I care about did you win or did you lose it’s that simple! You can always find a stat that doesn’t look good but who gives a chit if you’re winning and we are winning and when we didn’t win it was because we dropped or fumbled the ball or had a stupid penalty it’s that simple. This is the offense on the way James Franklin wants to run it and it’s working that’s why we’re winning more games that 90% of the teams out there and that’s why we’re finishing in the top 10
What does any of that have to do with the fact that we can't protect our QB in passing situations.
FFS are you saying that protecting the QB in long situations doesn't help you win? WTF are you talking about?
Your constant mantra of "did you win or did you lose" is completely ridiculous. It completely disregards everything that actually goes into winning.
The team drops 10 passes but wins: "Who cares, we won"
The team gives up 10 sacks but wins: "Who cares, we won"
The team gets 450 yards and scores 45 points: "Something must be wrong on offense because we lost"
There's a reason Franklin actually does focus on stats, because they freaking matter. Do you really think Franklin evaluates his team every week by saying "We won so nothing's wrong"? No. He's very analytical and studies the stats.
You're basically saying to ignore your issues and pretend they aren't there if you are winning. Again, completely asinine. That is what a coach or fan that's happy with 10-2 would say, not someone who wants to be 11-1 or 12-0. You want to beat Ohio State consistently? Then you need to work to get better in all phases of the game, not sit around and wax poetic about how everything is working because you can beat Iowa and Indiana every year. I am glad Franklin does not share your opinion, and actually wants to get better and isn't pretending everything is perfectly fine.
